Roller reefing-worth it?

[Cobra750]

Dear All. I use traditional hanked sails. I can't say I find them a great hassle, but then again I know no different. I like the way they always set nicely & are stored away from the elements. However, I am increasing curious about the benefits of roller reefing, especially as I will soon need a new No1 Genoa. A list of my worries is as follows..
Are they worth the extra hundreds of pounds?
Should I go for the most expensive package?
Will I regret it as soon as I need to reef (having a baggy set foresail)?
Is my forestay likely to be twisted into a bird nest?
Will it be jammed open?
Thanks

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[oldharry]

having been a traditionalist (i.e. bouncing around on the foredeck trying to reduce headsails too late) I was somewhat sceptical when the latest wreck - er boat - came with one of these new fangled reefing things.

I would not do without now. Reducing sail is done in a fraction of the time - often without actually stopping - and from the safety of the cockpit.

Yes, well reefed down they do not set well at all, but i find that by the time I have had to take enough sail in for it to matter theres not much windward progress to be made anyway, and the convenience of being able to reduce by 2 - 3 rolls more than offsets the losses.

Like any 'improvement', extra gear means something else to go wrong. the Plastimo has a reputation for chewing up forestays because of poorly designed top bearings, and as with any gear - lack of maintenance spells trouble. But maintenance of these things is minimal - just making sure the drum and top bearings are running free - and for the most part a heavy rainstorm will do that for you anyway!

They do seem to be fairly fool proof for the most part. Very few modern yachts are not equipped and failure seems to be so rare as to be newsworthy when it does occur.

The one important thing is to ensure the headsail is tightly rolled before leaving the boat. Almost every gale produces a crop of destroyed jibs that have been left loosely furled and have flogged themselves to shreds. This can be done quite simply by keeping a small load on the jib sheets as the jib is furled up, then making sure both the sheets and the pennant are properly secured.

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[ashanta]

You cannot beat a sail well set and that whats you get with either a hanked on sail or a furling sail let out fully. The roller reef sail is mean't to be let out fully. Trying to reduce sail by taking in a few turns reduces the sails shape considerably and therefore performance drops. Some sailers use foam luffs with aim trying to maintain the shape when reducing sail but they only add to the cost of your new sail.
My recommendation would be ( as I use currently ) to buy a genoa for a roller which you will use most of the time. Set up a second forestay (As I have ) or a second luff groove on your RRFS. Keep your hanked (or convert for the second luff groove) on sails and use them when you are outside of the genoa's range. I find this method very rewarding and it will mean that you will keep your new genoa in shape for much longer.

Regards.

Peter.

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[neil_s]

Roller reefers generally work very reliably, but you're right, a couple of turns and the sail will look like an old bag. You might bear a couple of points in mind, though -

The headsail can be furled very easily, merely by pulling the string.

If you fit roller reefing, you can equip your hank-on sails with mainsail 'bullet' slides and use them as before. If you also fit them with a strop so that the top swivel can get nearly to the top of the luff spar, you will be able to furl them too.

(Having tried both, I prefer hanking on)

Cheers, Neil


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[quaelgeist2]

Ours have worked reliably for years, and it even included a very basic Plastimo thingy.
Common mistake is, though, that you replace all your genoas (No 1 - 4) with one rolling piece of cloth -> can't work as even with a foam strip at the luff, which I would suggest, rolling away more than about one third spoils the profile. She will sail, but not fast and close to the wind.

Take two foresails: One that represents something of a No 1/2 and one which is more of a No 3/4. On our heavy masthead rigged 31ft, we have last season sailed with one 160% and one 110% genoa. It big one was too large and needed too much reefing too keep its shape. When replacing we have opted for a 145% and it is fine up too F4/5, from where we switch to the smaller one which goes up to F7+.

If you are uncertain, there are plenty of nice-priced second hand sails available with 2-3 seasons of remaining life - enough for testing (that's where the 160% No1 came from).

chris

NB We also have a stormsail of 7sqm, but fortunately never needed it, yet.

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[dickh]

Go to the LBS and search out all the suppliers of reefing gear, some are better than others. Some, the Furlex I believe, rolls up the centre of the sail first, thus keeping a better sail shape when furled. I have a Sailspar with a foam luff genoa and it sets very well, even when reefed. Make sure you tell the sailmaker which type of gear you are using, the sail is often cut flatter.

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[Chris_Robb]

I changed 2 years ago.

Benefits:
much more space in the sail lockers
Dead easy to set and reduce sail - we have less excuse to be lazy and motor!

Cons:
Set when reefed is not brilliant - but OK
No where to set storm jib now (never used it before anyway)

Sensible things to remember

Haliards: Braid on Braid is NO GOOD you must not have any stretch even on a cruising boat. I have to change all my new haliards for main and genoa as the stretch in them means that every time the wind pipes up - they stretch. That means a baggy jib and a mainsail liff that flutters - no matter how much tension you try to wind in. So this year its back to metal halyards!.

Buy a decent quality roller - you pays for what you get.

On Balance I am glad I put one on.

Chris

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[ChrisE]

We have, and swear by, roller reefing but we are 38' and hanked on sails for boats of this size and up get too big IMO to play with when short handed as we usually are. This is especially true when conditions get lively.

Regarding a storm jib, if you are going to do any extended, offshore, cruising then a removable forestay is the only way to go. We have one and apart from its use to ensure that the genoa doesn't get excessive loads in a blow, it saved our mast when we were 7 days from nowhere and the forestay failed.

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[MainlySteam]

<<<So this year its back to metal halyards!.>>>

Have you tried Spectra for halyards? It works and is much friendlier than wire.

John

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[sailorman]

i suggest that if u go for the furling system, have the saiosay 130% & Tri cut.
more expensive but will "set" better especially when "reefed".
prior to my present boat i had 2 rr sails 1@ 150% the other @ 125% this worked very well & covered most conditions. jus choose the sail for the trip / week end.
also solves the problem of u/v as u remove the sail @ the end of the trip.

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[roger]

IMHO Roller reefing has great advantages for safety. Its not nice on the foredeck in a blow trying to change a sail. You are a long way from the cockpit and communication is difficult.
As far as the furling systems are concerned, do take account of the halyard wrap problem and fit a diverter if advised. My new Furlex just did not work without one although the old one did. The reason I think is that the furlex swivel arm stuck out further. I fitted the diverter with the boat afloat and the mast up. It wasnt nice but not in fact very difficult until a grockle boat went by!!
I think its well worth while having a forestay adjuster at the bottom end. Oh yes make sure the design you use leaves room to get the anchor out over the bow; some types are very mean in that respect.

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[claymore]

Yes it is worth it.
Harken is really expensive so not really - rotofurl is ours and very good.
I fitted a furling system to my old boat after I nearly wrecked my knee, changing up to the number One after the wind had dropped off - the sea was still quite big and lumpy and so we needed more sail. I tore off a fingernail and landed on my knee on one of the foredeck cleats. The furler just makes life easier and to be honest I really don't think that the sail not setting brilliantly when its partially furled is such a big issue - if there's suffijcient breeze to warrant reducing sail there's probably sufficient to make the boat go quickly - beautifully set sail or rather creased and full in the middle set sail
Two of us sail our boat and so if the sea is building I think that to be on the foredeck introduces an increased element of risk which can be avoided

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Claymore
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[Chris_Robb]

I was told that is was double the price - and being a scot.......

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[MainlySteam]

It is quite alot more expensive diameter for diameter compared to polyester braid, but not so bad when comparing by strength.

However, size makes it comfy to handle, but if one can go down a size over polyester braid and still maintain comfyness the price difference is not that great. If one can go down 2 sizes eg 12mm to 8mm, then there is not much difference at all (however that assumes a big diameter in the first place, which is probably not the case for you).

I cannot speak from experience, but would assume wire is cheaper than both as long as there are no hardware issues to be sorted (winches, etc), and that laid polyester is cheaper too.

In any event, I know the feeling, and I am not a Scotsman - when one measures up all the metres required, and multiply it by the per metre rate, one gets a surprisingly huge bill whatever one does!

John

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[Chris_Robb]

John - thanks for that - currently they are 14mm so I can probably go to 10mm. I'll get some costings.


Chris

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[MainlySteam]

No problem Chris.

12 mm spectra is about 1.9 x stronger than a 14 mm soft polyester braid and (here in NZ) about 2.2 x more expensive.

10 mm spectra is about 1.4 x stronger than a 14 mm soft polyester braid and about 1.4 x more expensive.

8mm spectra is about 0.9 x the strength of 14mm soft polyester braid and about 1.05 x more expensive.

So you probably have to go to 8 mm for the price to be the same but that is likely to be too small for nice handing I would have thought and may not suit your winches.

Our genoa is about 550 sq.ft and I don't recall what dia the spectra halyard is - about 12mm I think, that being driven by the rope size needed to fit in the crowns of a self tailing winch of suitable size rather than by strength I would have thought.

The price differentials and strength ratios may vary from place to place and maker to maker, of course.

John

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[Robin]

Hi Chris

Our genoa halyard with a 12mm dia is fine with a 580sq ft roller. We only tension ours normally to just take out the horizontal creases, plus a touch more say for F4/5 with no rolls in, BUT we have a Hydranet (spectra net) triradial that may stretch less than yours. I was reminded ages back by our sailmaker that there is no point in over tensioning the genoa since once it has a couple of rolls in the (original) luff tension is irrelevant.

We do have a stretch problem with the main halyard which is also 12mm (320sqft main), especially when reefed since the effective length in use is much longer, ours coming back to the cockpit via a 50' mast. We will be replacing the main halyard with Dyneema at 12mm to limit stretch rather than for extra strength plus we need 12mm for the self-tailer winches/clutches if the load is high. Jimmy Green had a deal (relative since his prices are high IMO) at Soton show on Dyneema as did Alladins Cave. The problem with the wire option is you may need to change the masthead sheaves and you have a wire to rope splice to make and worry about!

Robin

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[Boathook]

We switched to rurling headsail about 5 years ago. Well worth the expense. Fitted the Selden unit that rolls up the center of the sail before the tack and head thereby ensuring the sail keeps it shape more. Also used a reasonable quality material for the sail. If the furling line has to turn sharp bends use blocks with ball bearings to reduce friction. When we leave the boat the sail is furled tightly with the sheets wrapped around a few times for luck. I then put another rope around the whole lot for luck. So far no problems ......

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[qsiv]

As well as the size issue that MainSteam raises, we only have half the halyard in spectra - the tail is some light braid on braid, and is detached once the sail is set up - less clutter round the mast, and less halyard being eaten by UV.

I have to replace my spi sheets (14 mm dyneema from memory) that some toad filched - I'm NOT looking forward to the cost of those! As they normally get used on the asymetrics, they hav to be almost double the length of the boat, so about 60m, plus the splicing and shackles.

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[StephenW]

Pro-furl seem to work well

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