Roller Furling Headsail Woes

[Cappen Boidseye]

On my Verl 27 I have a roller furler fitted (Rotostay I think). I am constantly having problems with the furling line jamming. If I keep any tension on the line when setting the sail it has a habit of building up at the top of the drum. The line then either jams in the casing or passes between the top of the drum and the case, to end up uselessly wrapped around the foil above the drum.
If I let it run free, it builds up at the bottom of the drum and jams in the casing. Last night it managed to get between the drum and the casing and jam the furler solid, great fun as I was sailing onto my mooring, (well that was the plan!).
If I juggle enough with the tension while setting sail I can often get the cord fairly even on the drum, but then it looks like there is too much cord or the cord is too thick,i.e. it looks like the drum is overfull. Thinner cord would sit easier on the drum but wouldn't it be even more likely to get between drum and housing and cause more jams? The genoa is just the standard for the boat AFAIK, so not oversize.
Not long after I got the boat I had a cord jam, I used my normal diagnostic technique, i.e. brute force and ignorance. This resulted in the drum being twisted round, maybe 15 degrees, this obviously does not help because the entrance hole is twisted forward by 15 degrees, however, even before I did that, the line got fankled around the forestay, that was what caused the initial twisting to the drum.
What's my question? Oh yes, do you think thinner cord would be better or worse? Below the drum are two pieces of stainless steel plate for attaching the drum mechanism to the deck. These are the bits I twisted, can I remove them for straightening without dropping the mast?
Finally, is it just me/my boat, or is roller furling generally a pain in the mule?
If the weather is calm tonight, I will probably go out to the mooring, try and straighten out the furler line and take a couple of photos of it to post, if that would help.
Cheers!

 

[alahol2]

If you get the setup right, the furling line should sit happily on the drum and very rarely be a problem.
Yes, straighten up your mounting plates. It is quite likely the furler is a Plastimo, it's the only one I've seen that mounts like that.
Make sure the lead to the drum gives a straight line to the centre of the drum. This may involve having to add a block or bullseye to the toerail or deck.
Use a braid on braid furling line and remove the centre braid from the first several metres of the line. This will prevent the drum from over filling.
Never force the furling line no matter how desperate you are. Something is wrong so sort it otherwise you will do damage (as you've found out).
Headsail furling should be easy.
Good luck.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

.
Use a braid on braid furling line and remove the centre braid from the first several metres of the line.

I'm not sure I agree with this. the centre braid is, by far, stronger than the outer, which is used only for UV protection and to provide a more comfortable grip. I would have far more confidence in a setup where the outer braid was removed for the first several metres and sewn to the inner, where it ends.

 

[alahol2]

I'm not sure I agree with this. the centre braid is, by far, stronger than the outer, which is used only for UV protection and to provide a more comfortable grip. I would have far more confidence in a setup where the outer braid was removed for the first several metres and sewn to the inner, where it ends.

From the Marlow website: "... for ropes with a braided core and braided cover. Usually polyester and the strength is fairly evenly split between core and cover".

 

[Cappen Boidseye]

From the Marlow website: "... for ropes with a braided core and braided cover. Usually polyester and the strength is fairly evenly split between core and cover".

Thanks guys, I can't figure out how you would remove the centre braid without removing the outer one to get at it, am I just being dense or is there a clever technique? The line does go through an eye fixed to the bottom of the pulpit but I think that might be slightly too high to get the correct lead angle. Not sure how to get around that one, however, I will get the mounting plates straightened out and take it from there.

Fanks!

 

[duncan99210]

How far away from the furler is the first eye/block that leads the furling line back to the cockpit? If it's set too close to the drum, it may encourage the sort of problems you're describing; try setting it a bit further back. Ours was originally on one of the pushpit supports; its now on the first stanchion, about 2 metres further away from the drum and we get fewer tangles than we used to.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Had similar problems with my Twister's furler when I first got it. Replaced the line with a thinner one - actually Dyneema coz the chandler had a bit left on the drum which wasn't long enough for much else so was going cheap. Never had problems again. Well, not with the furler, anyway.

 

[Cappen Boidseye]

Had similar problems with my Twister's furler when I first got it. Replaced the line with a thinner one - actually Dyneema coz the chandler had a bit left on the drum which wasn't long enough for much else so was going cheap. Never had problems again. Well, not with the furler, anyway.

Thanks to all, next time I can get out in calmish weather I will try these ideas out.

 

[Daydream believer]

Make sure the lead to the drum gives a straight line to the centre of the drum. This may involve having to add a block or bullseye to the toerail or deck.
Use a braid on braid furling line and remove the centre braid from the first several metres of the line. This will prevent the drum from over filling.
Never force the furling line no matter how desperate you are. Something is wrong so sort it otherwise you will do damage (as you've found out).
Headsail furling should be easy.
Good luck.

I agree with comments about not forcing & ensuring a good lead out
But why on earth remove the core of the braid?
If the line is too thick then buy a thinner line
Or am i missing something??

 

[Talbot]

I had a rotostay on my last boat. I had a similar problem with the wraps occuring when the feeder on the bottom of the drum span round with the drum. This happened normally when the rope had built up at the bottom, or the top of the drum and the resultant friction between the drum and the feeder caused the resultant wrap.

I solved this by 3 things

I loosely tied the feed so that it was unable to spin around with the drum.

I added a new feed block at the right height on my pulpit so that the line from the feed block to the feeder, and then to the drum was essentially a stright line to the centre of the drum.

I made up a composite line for the reefing line, using thinnish but strong stuff from the drum (when no line on the drum) to the last feedblock, and then much thicker stuff from there back to the person reefing. This provided a decent grip for the reefer, but minimised the amount of line on the drum.

 

[alahol2]

I agree with comments about not forcing & ensuring a good lead out
But why on earth remove the core of the braid?
If the line is too thick then buy a thinner line
Or am i missing something??

Certainly you could use a thinner line but the thinner it gets the more uncomfortable it is to handle. Just removing the core from the part of the line that is never handled makes quite a lot more space on the furling drum.

 

[Talbot]

Certainly you could use a thinner line but the thinner it gets the more uncomfortable it is to handle. Just removing the core from the part of the line that is never handled makes quite a lot more space on the furling drum.

See my previous post. Use a thinner braid on braid line with equivalent dimensions to the inner core of line you want to use for the handling section. Join the two lines together, and then you have a line that is easy to handle, but doesnt fill the drum.

 

[Cappen Boidseye]

I had a rotostay on my last boat. I had a similar problem with the wraps occuring when the feeder on the bottom of the drum span round with the drum. This happened normally when the rope had built up at the bottom, or the top of the drum and the resultant friction between the drum and the feeder caused the resultant wrap.

I solved this by 3 things

I loosely tied the feed so that it was unable to spin around with the drum.

I added a new feed block at the right height on my pulpit so that the line from the feed block to the feeder, and then to the drum was essentially a stright line to the centre of the drum.

I made up a composite line for the reefing line, using thinnish but strong stuff from the drum (when no line on the drum) to the last feedblock, and then much thicker stuff from there back to the person reefing. This provided a decent grip for the reefer, but minimised the amount of line on the drum.

My furler doesn't have a feeder, the line enters the drum through a large hole in the housing, The housing consists of two plates which wrap around the drum, leaving a gap at each side. The line passes through one of these gaps. Thanks to my brute force approach the assembly has twisted with the gap the line goes through now twisted away by about 20 degrees. Next time the winds drop enough for me to get to the boat without getting soaked I will take a photo and upload it. I am wondering if there is supposed to be a feeder.

 

[steve_l]

I had a similar problem on the same kind of roller drum. Cured it by using a twisted shackle (one with the curve of the shackle at 90 deg to the pin) as a furling line guide, mounted to the curved plate by it's pin. It allows the line to find it's own place on the drum and prevents it from going anywhere it shouldn't. Not easy to describe so I'll take a pic tomorrow and post it here.

 

[Daydream believer]

Certainly you could use a thinner line but the thinner it gets the more uncomfortable it is to handle. Just removing the core from the part of the line that is never handled makes quite a lot more space on the furling drum.

Is this idea something you have actually done or something you have dreamed up in the armchair at home

 

[alahol2]

Is this idea something you have actually done or something you have dreamed up in the armchair at home

I can't claim to have initiated this idea, I read about it many years ago. Until I got the current boat about 10 years ago I never had a problem with the furling line. After a couple of years with this boat I found that I did sometimes get loops of furling line falling off the drum and getting stuck in the line guide. I investigated on the internet and came across the idea of stripping the inner from double braid line. I tried it on a short length as I was sceptical of the strength. It worked fine so I stripped out some more.
I normally only comment on threads about which I have some knowledge or experience. If I do comment on a thread about which I have only third hand knowledge or opinion I make it clear that it is an opinion or idea I have seen elsewhere.

 

[Daydream believer]

I can't claim to have initiated this idea, I read about it many years ago. Until I got the current boat about 10 years ago I never had a problem with the furling line. After a couple of years with this boat I found that I did sometimes get loops of furling line falling off the drum and getting stuck in the line guide. I investigated on the internet and came across the idea of stripping the inner from double braid line. I tried it on a short length as I was sceptical of the strength. It worked fine so I stripped out some more.
I normally only comment on threads about which I have some knowledge or experience. If I do comment on a thread about which I have only third hand knowledge or opinion I make it clear that it is an opinion or idea I have seen elsewhere.

I can understand that but:
Why i queried is because if you look at a lot of new braid on braid the threads are fairly loosly laid around the core.
If you then remove the core you alter the pitch & lay of the thread. This makes it loose & the chances of single threads catching are higher. As an example, take a piece of core, remove it & push the ends towards each other. The rope expands & pushes out the threads unevenly.if you put tension on it the threads tighten up ok.
In the same way ( but not so bad) the outer coat will have a tendancy to expand & expose threads of left slack. Bearing in mind the op has a problem with snags i would not recomend this idea . However, if the rope is old & have an element of salt & uv then this may not happen

 

[Cappen Boidseye]

Hmm, more food for fort!

Would a thinner cord be more likely to escape it's hole and jam up? or would the lighter loading on the drum help things work more smoothly? Also would a new line slide over itself when loading onto the drum so that it loads the drum more evenly? my cord is years old and I wonder if that is one reason why it tends to bunch up at the top or the bottom of the drum?

 

[Cappen Boidseye]

View attachment 32175

This is the guilty furler, sorted, for the moment!

 

[SAWDOC]

I can't claim to have initiated this idea, I read about it many years ago. Until I got the current boat about 10 years ago I never had a problem with the furling line. After a couple of years with this boat I found that I did sometimes get loops of furling line falling off the drum and getting stuck in the line guide. I investigated on the internet and came across the idea of stripping the inner from double braid line. I tried it on a short length as I was sceptical of the strength. It worked fine so I stripped out some more.
I normally only comment on threads about which I have some knowledge or experience. If I do comment on a thread about which I have only third hand knowledge or opinion I make it clear that it is an opinion or idea I have seen elsewhere.

I compliment you on a very polite response to a not so polite query....

My tuppence ha'penny worth would be to advise the OP to check that it is a snag on the furling line that is causing him grief. It may not be. sometimes if i adjust foresail halyard tension while underway, it seems to impede the movement of the top swivel. When it first happened I thought it was the furling line as it looked untidy on the drum but it turned out that it wasnt. In my case, I furled unfurled partially a number of times until I succeeded in furling fully. Then when back on the mooring i dropped the sail and ensured swivel was free to rotate and sprayed some silicone lubricant where I could. Did nothing to the furling line. The only problem I have had with the furling line is if the line fallls off the drum and snags underneath. If this is not happening the drum may not be the problem.