Rodkicker installation query

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Sadveyor

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Hi
I'd be grateful for views on a Selden A20 2.5KN rodkicker installation just installed on my Dehler 37CR this week with the mainsail already on.

It doesn't look right in as much as with all ropes loosened hence boom just supported by the rodkicker it's some 5-10 degrees below parallel.

Since the rodkicker is extended to it's maximum with the gas strut ( it is working) I don't see how it could open the leach in light winds which with easier reefing are it's main functions.

I do have a topping lift which I could use if necessary but Dehler's have large roached mains so not ideal and that rather negates the reason for having a retro rodkicker installed which is now so low that the boom threatens to get me before coronavirus.

I'd be grateful for an indication of what angle the boom should lie at supported only by the rod kicker - ie horizontal or even slightly higher.

I've yet to query / pay contractor but wanted amo if necessary before contact.

Many thanks for any views

Sadveyor
 
How is the kicker secured to the boom? On my boat, there’s a slot on the bottom of the boom: there’s a sliding fitting that the kicker is secured to which can slide up and down the slot. There’s a screw which stops the fitting sliding so that you can adjust the angle of the kicker. If your boom is too low, then loosen the screw, move the fitting closer to the mast and that’ll have the effect of raising the boom. Adjust as required.
 
Difficult to comment for certain without seeing a picture but it sounds like your rodkicker is incorrectly installed.
When the Rodkicker is extended to maximum the boom should be lifted as high if not higher than your usual topping lift position.
 
Thanks for all your replies
Because there was no slider fitting within the boom the rigger fitted a selden universal boom fixing - it's riveted on and fixed - no slider.
I appreciate that with the main up there will be less weight to support and in all probability the boom would rise further but that doesn't seem to me something that should have to be relied upon. The mainsail without the battens weighs 40Kgs.

For that reason I'm inclined to agree with orangemikey. Fortunately it was installed by a large well known south coast mast and rigger so not expecting any difficulty but since I'm not able to speak with Selden direct better to be informed prior to going back to them

The mainsail is stacked on the boom in the photo with all ropes released.
 

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To me it makes sense to try it with main hoisted. If the guy is reputable and experienced, give him a chance.

The pressure the strut can exert at full extension isn't that great - from experience as a main trimmer on race yachts - so it makes sense to me that the weight of the sail has the effect you have identified. If the strut could easily lift the boom plus sail, it would be hard to trim against when in compression and trying to tighten the leech.
 
RJJ said:
The pressure the strut can exert at full extension isn't that great - from experience as a main trimmer on race yachts - so it makes sense to me that the weight of the sail has the effect you have identified. If the strut could easily lift the boom plus sail, it would be hard to trim against when in compression and trying to tighten the leech.
Click to expand...

It seems to me you've contradicted yourself there. If there's little force when it's near the limit of its lift, as you suggest and I would imagine, then it would not be hard to trim against it.

I would expect the boom to be a little above horizontal when at rest or during reefing, and need to be brought down to the horizontal by the mainsheet. I suspect either there's something amiss with the kicker or, much more likely, the installer has fitted it incorrectly.

One 'cure' for the droopy boom would be to fit a topping lift. ;)
 
Sadveyor said:
Thanks for all your replies
Because there was no slider fitting within the boom the rigger fitted a selden universal boom fixing - it's riveted on and fixed - no slider.
I appreciate that with the main up there will be less weight to support and in all probability the boom would rise further but that doesn't seem to me something that should have to be relied upon. The mainsail without the battens weighs 40Kgs.

For that reason I'm inclined to agree with orangemikey. Fortunately it was installed by a large well known south coast mast and rigger so not expecting any difficulty but since I'm not able to speak with Selden direct better to be informed prior to going back to them

The mainsail is stacked on the boom in the photo with all ropes released.
Click to expand...
Have you read the installation and operation instructions on the Selden website ? Assembly and operation : Seldén Mast AB
 
Thanks everybody for your replies - your comments are all duly noted.
I will have a gentle word with the Rigger on Monday and advise outcome but essentially believe that in the neutral position the boom should atleat be in the horizontal position if not at 95 degrees.
I walked around Port Solent Marina where I'm based and noted that virtually all yachts with rod kickers retained their topping lifts - but I think that is more to do with safety when packing the main sail and securing the boom whilst in harbour.
This is the first time I've posted a query on YBW in 9 years as a member - what an excellent forum and thank you so much for your assistance.
 
LittleSister said:
It seems to me you've contradicted yourself there. If there's little force when it's near the limit of its lift, as you suggest and I would imagine, then it would not be hard to trim against it.

I would expect the boom to be a little above horizontal when at rest or during reefing, and need to be brought down to the horizontal by the mainsheet. I suspect either there's something amiss with the kicker or, much more likely, the installer has fitted it incorrectly.

One 'cure' for the droopy boom would be to fit a topping lift. ;)
Click to expand...
I think that's what I said. There is little force when in full extension, that's why you don't experience noticeable challenge trimming the main. If it was able easily to lift the boom plus sail (stowed) it would imply greater mainsheet loads upwind.

I also reflect that I usually, when packing up after sailing, and wanting the boom a bit higher, typically put a hand under it or use the topping lift. Easing the mainsheet and kicker not enough, in my experience, to lift the boom.

I will be interested to hear the outcome, please.
 
I’ve just had the same kicker fitted by I suspect the same rigger if you are at Port Solent.

They advised keeping the topping lift as a safety line, it’s not tight at all and is there just in case (and a useful spare halyard).

Because our boom was stupidly low, we took advice from the same rigger and our sail maker and the consensus was to cut the base of the sail a little at an angle and retro adjust the reef points - this allowed us to raise the boom to a comfortable height over the cockpit. We use the boat for family cruising not racing so I can live with the 0.03 knot loss.

The upshot was that the kicker when fitted had just enough travel downwards to allow the main sheet to compress (and of course the vang line) when the boom was out with winds aft of the beam. It’s more than happy supporting the boom and we are very happy with the advice that we were given by said rigger.

They know their stuff is all I’d say.
 
We had an original Selden Gas strut in our boom strut. It could barely hold the boom+sail + bag. It drooped. We replaced the strut by one from SGS Engineering which is nominally adjustable, but stronger than the Selden version. Mechanical dimensions identical.
It now supports the boom adequately and sail trimming is not impacted. There is a large range in ordinary steel and SS versions.
 
Thanks Pagoda

I was aware of comments on line regarding replacement gas struts at a far cheaper price and greater choice with SGS Engineering and going for a higher spec might well be the answer.

I'll wait to see what the Rigger says and whether in the circumstances he recommends the 5KN.

I'll post the outcome here.
 
+1 for adjustable SS strut from SGS, we retrofitted our standard spring strut with gas strut 3 years ago, being adjustable you just let some gas out and test, this is the one we used
GSSV10-150 Adjustable Stainless Gas Strut
GSSV10-150

i estimate 40% gas let out, boat 30 foot, took at the toping lift off last year as never used it.
 
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Daverw said:
+1 for adjustable SS strut from SGS, we retrofitted our standard spring strut with gas strut 3 years ago, being adjustable you just let some gas out and test, this is the one we used
GSSV10-150 Adjustable Stainless Gas Strut
GSSV10-150

i estimate 40% gas let out, boat 30 foot, took at the toping lift if last year as never used it.
Click to expand...

Agreed, topping lift is quite redundant now....
 
I'm a great believer in the KISS principle, so fitted a Barton Boom Strut several yrs ago - simple, easy to adjust and cheap. I've retained the topping lift, tied to the back stay as an emergency main halyard.
 
Petite Fleur - I did look at the Barton Boom Strut - but it was not powerful enough for my boom.

Pagoda - which Selden model and strut did you have and what did you upgrade to in terms of strut Kn. Did you have to release gas as the boom was forced too far above horizontal in neutral?

I'd like to get my boom to 90/95 degrees in neutral otherwise I might just have well stayed with a topping lift and saved £1350.
 
Spoken to rigger who recognises there is a problem which now requires a further inspection - he's considering dimensions of the two fixings but I think it's more straight forward and that the gas strutt is not installed / not working correctly. Unfortunately the Company has now closed down temporarily in view of the epidemic so unclear when that might happen. All of a sudden the urgency seems to have gone and am increasingly resigned to probably not sailing this year.
 
I have the Dehler37cws and can see your boom is too low. I used a replacement ss gas strut for mine. Not without problems. Getting air out for correct action is a bit of a hassle with multiple trials (taking all apart each time). The strut seems to last two years then needs repressurised. That costs 50% of new cost - aren’t those sales people clever at pricing. When it works, though, it’s fine.
 
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