Rocna- what to buy instead?

The anchor quandary (or the quandary anchor)

To those who are considering the original question, my current boat had a Delta but two years later I talked myself in to buying a roll bar, I looked carefully at a Rocna and then a Manson, I decided on the Manson because I thought it looked better made and the galvanising looked heavier, as well, at the time it was significantly cheaper and I was comforted by the image of the cheery Kiwis who made it. I can not convince myself that it holds any better than the Delta but then I have been careful not to really test it in extreme weather.
With hindsight I should have spent what I then regarded as silly money and bought a Spade, it would be a lot easier to handle between anchor locker and bow roller and consensus seems to be that they are the best at holding and at resetting. Roll bar anchors are a pain if you have a modern boat with a two rail pulpit unless you are happy to sail about with it sticking out over the bow. As a second anchor I would be happy with the Delta or even a Bruce.
 
The original galvanising on my Italian-made chain failed completely in three seasons. The regalvanising, done by BE Wedge in UK, looks excellent after a further three seasons.

My Rocna, now four years old, is looking pretty rusty at the fluke tip, whereas my Delta was something like the same after 10 or 11 years.

Answering the OP, unless I was anchoring almost every day and expecting a lot of that to be in very soft mud, I would have a Delta. Its performance is not quite as good as that of the new generation anchors so far as ultimate pull is concerned, but how important is that to most of us? Its setting performance is almost as good as the Rocna's in my experience. I shall definitely have one for my new little boat.
 
I am very pleased with our "Spade" anchor having tested it unexpectedly in a storm.
I've never used a Rocna or a Manson but would always go for the Manson over the Rocna because they are a jolly nice bunch of people.
 
Garold said:
I'm surprised that you are so sure.

I had total faith in my Rocna before the questions about the quality of the metal, and the integrity of the inventor and suppliers. Now, I'm unnerved..
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I'd buy another Rocna because of the excellent performance of ours so far.

It seems that quite a few Rocna anchors have been sold and used in the British Isles over the last half dozen years or so. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been an epidemic of a seriously bent shanks.

I appreciate that the "old" Rocna company seems to have altered the specification of steel used in fabrication and didn't announce the change. But despite all the theory stated in these forum threads, the relative lack of failure seems to indicate that the lower strength steel is adequate.

Obviously an individual's choice of anchor should reflect their particular requirements. For a cruising sailor with a 34' boat displacing about 8 tons, anchoring mainly in sand, shingle and mud, our 20kg Rocna has behaved impeccably.

Hence my saying I'd buy the same again.
 
uxb said:
Anyone know where the Manson is made?

I DO NOT want to buy Chinese if I can possibly avoid it.

In my shed I currently have two Danforths and a 65 lb CQR. I'll keep one of the Danforths but the CQR is way oversize for my new boatie.
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A fairly significant ammount of the stuff you buy these days comes from China irrespective of the brand name and the location of brand owner. It is really down to how responsible the brand owner is. Good brand owner/importer good stuff. The problem manufacturers in Europe and the US have is that many things can be made just as well but much cheaper in China, and if you don't get your stuff made there or perhaps in India then you will go out of business.
 
"Rocna- what to buy instead?"

Whatever you do don't buy one of those genuine CQRs. The sooner people realise how completely useless they are and start giving them away, the better.
 
Ludd said:
Rocna are now to be made in Canada. Get one that is DEFINITELY made in Canada!
Alternatively: Mansn Spade ,Bugel, Delta.
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Delta may be a fine anchor but doesn't deserve a place in a discussion of alternative new-generation anchors. It has a convex rather than concave blade, so simply doesn't have the same grab characteristic which is the defining - and reassuring - feature of the new generation anchors.

Fortunately our Rocna pre-dates the Chinese debacle.

Garold said:
As the wife keeps telling me: 'stop whinghing, it's only money. And if this will shut you up it's worth it.'
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You lucky man you!
 
vyv_cox said:
The original galvanising on my Italian-made chain failed completely in three seasons. The regalvanising, done by BE Wedge in UK, looks excellent after a further three seasons.

My Rocna, now four years old, is looking pretty rusty at the fluke tip, whereas my Delta was something like the same after 10 or 11 years.

Answering the OP, unless I was anchoring almost every day and expecting a lot of that to be in very soft mud, I would have a Delta. Its performance is not quite as good as that of the new generation anchors so far as ultimate pull is concerned, but how important is that to most of us? Its setting performance is almost as good as the Rocna's in my experience. I shall definitely have one for my new little boat.
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The French test suggested that Deltas don't like a change of direction. Kobra2 was better noted and cheaper.
 
parsifal said:
"Rocna- what to buy instead?"

Whatever you do don't buy one of those genuine CQRs. The sooner people realise how completely useless they are and start giving them away, the better.
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Mine RUSTED away in 20years ...and that was a genuine SL one from Scotland.

Extremely happy with my KOBRA2, especially the way it sets first time every time .... but maybe that's because I went up several sizes compared to the CQR.?

Vic
 
We've spent well over 100 nights at anchor in the Balearics this year on our original Kobra (kobra 1?), with no problems other than hoping other boats dragging around us didn't hit us.

The boats that dragged sported Bruces, CQRs, and sometimes new generation anchors with inadequate scope. (Irrelevant aside - they flew French, Spanish and Belgian ensigns.)

Unless you have an unlimited budget, it seems crazy not to consider the Kobra.

Tony MS
 
snooks said:
If you spend more than around 30 days on your hook for as long you own it, rather than spend those nights in a marina, it will have paid for itself, no matter which anchor you buy for your size of boat.

The Spade often get berated for it's price, ours paid for itself in the first year.
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I like your way of thinking, 'tho it depends on whether your "marina" is Buckler's Hard or Ryde...

If I walk instead of getting the bus, I save £2; If I walk instead of getting a taxi, I save £12 ;-)

Still, by that reckoning, our Spade has also paid for itself, so any further use is truly free.
 
vyv_cox said:
So where will your chain come from? There are a few European suppliers, although some of the examples I have are not particularly good, especially the galvanising. The vast majority of chain available through chandlers comes from one of two suppliers, both of whom buy from China.
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I dunno - hopefully here.

I deplore the selling off of our industry in the pursuit of short term profit - it will all end in tears...

But anyway, I will always try to buy local, or as local as possible which is why I asked the question. I would buy a genuine NZ Rocna if I couldn't find an alternative made closer to home.

As for the size of my CQR it may well be 60,65 or 70 lbs - so sue me if I've got it wrong.I can't be arsed going to look. It was oversized for my last boat and plenty oversize for this one.
But as has been said, size isn't everything.

Where I sail is thankfully short on marinas and long on anchorages. The CQR does not dig through the increasing weed too well, the Danforth sometimes does. I'd like something that mostly can.

Preferably locally made. Or made by someone working in decent conditions and on a decent wage.
 
Extraordinary couple of anti CQR posts -obviously- imo! So in defence of the humble,hardworking pre WW2 design.....

I've gone through hurricanes with em ( two actually, really, Luis and Marylyn in
?C1998, google em, v bad news indeed). I lost a fender, most people lost their boats. Fact.
I can bite down and wack on my full mighty 24hp on my current 60lb with shortish chain and it bites, bang, its in.
And on this winters wish list is to carry dive gear, then I can pop down and have a look see. That would be nice.
But, until Rocna sort 'emselves out, IMO pound for pound, or £ for pound, yer genuine, overspecced ( ie plus a size or two) CQR really has a lot going for it.

I write from my own genuine experiences. At the end of the day we are all captains of our own vessels, and please be we do whatever we think best to ensure a sound nights sleep at anchor!
 
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Blueboatman said:
Extraordinary couple of anti CQR posts -obviously- imo! So in defence of the humble,hardworking pre WW2 design.....

I've gone through hurricanes with em ( two actually, really, Luis and Marylyn in
?C1998, google em, v bad news indeed). I lost a fender, most people lost their boats. Fact.
I can bite down and wack on my full mighty 24hp on my current 60lb with shortish chain and it bites, bang, its in.
And on this winters wish list is to carry dive gear, then I can pop down and have a look see. That would be nice.
But, until Rocna sort 'emselves out, IMO pound for pound, or £ for pound, yer genuine, overspecced ( ie plus a size or two) CQR really has a lot going for it.

I write from my own genuine experiences. At the end of the day we are all captains of our own vessels, and please be we do whatever we think best to ensure a sound nights sleep at anchor!
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I have lived with more than a few CQRs and CQR copies over the years and found them all pretty good even the cheapo cast copies, but needing just a bit more care in setting. I have far less confidence in Danforths except as stern anchors and even then they can clog or jam with rubbish/weed etc. Then we switched to a Delta, simply because one came with the last boat. That Delta was a size smaller on a 41 footer than the (genuine) CQR we had on the earlier 33 footer, yet it set instantly and once in never dragged, despite some hard tests. So by rights a bigger Delta (ie same size as the recommended CQR, not the usual one size less) should be even better and one that is one size up on that even better still.

I have no doubt that the modern anchors have fast(er) set ability and high(er) holding power but all that is really required perhaps is 'adequate' plus a fair bit of a safety margin. It is the whole anchoring system too that is really on test is it not, not just the individual parts and that whole system starts with the seabed and ends at the foredeck? Perhaps the downfall of the really really high hold anchors is that they then make other parts of the system into the weak point, like bending of shanks or breaking of chains even. I have a definite love for preventing snatch loads with a stretchy nylon snubber line into which is wound an extra stretch mooring compensator component. I even have two snubbers, one with standard and one with storm (stiffer resistance) compensator. I don't like 'snatch', that kind at least. I recall the days of my then YC lift in by crane into shallow waters at big spring tides when some of the deeper draft boats sometimes needed launch assistance to get them away. The technique was simple, just jerk them a few feet at a time with the club workboat, snatch snatch and more snatch until the job was done and they were away. That snatch is just how anchors get broken out IMO, or even bent shanks...
 
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Blueboatman said:
Extraordinary couple of anti CQR posts -obviously- imo! So in defence of the humble,hardworking pre WW2 design.....

I've gone through hurricanes with em ( two actually, really, Luis and Marylyn in
?C1998, google em, v bad news indeed). I lost a fender, most people lost their boats. Fact.
I can bite down and wack on my full mighty 24hp on my current 60lb with shortish chain and it bites, bang, its in.
And on this winters wish list is to carry dive gear, then I can pop down and have a look see. That would be nice.
But, until Rocna sort 'emselves out, IMO pound for pound, or £ for pound, yer genuine, overspecced ( ie plus a size or two) CQR really has a lot going for it.

I write from my own genuine experiences. At the end of the day we are all captains of our own vessels, and please be we do whatever we think best to ensure a sound nights sleep at anchor!
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Well, people's personal experience is different, and naturally, your own real personal experience is more important than what anyone writes in a magazine article.

I have spent a bajillion nights at anchor over the last 15 years, using the following anchors: CQR, then Spade, then Delta (came with the new boat), then Rocna. I've used Bruces on charter boats.

The CQR was hopeless -- five years of that and I was convinced that it was just not possible to anchor a sailing yacht reliably. Hard, often impossible to set, and often would not hold once set. It got to where if the wind kicked up during the night, I would just haul anchor and go to sea, rather than wait for the inevitable dragging. Not much sleep, lying to that bl**dy CQR.

The Spade which replaced it was brilliant -- night and day. Set better than anything I have ever used before or since, and always held. Never dragged it once. Slept through a few storms in it, including storms with 180 degree wind shifts. Admittedly in very good holding of fine sand.

The Delta was hard to set, but once set always held. Never tried it in a storm, however.

The Rocna was easier to set than the Delta, but much harder to set than the Spade. Once set, however, always held perfectly. Slept through some violent storms lying to the Rocna, including one where the snubber parted in the middle of the night, so that the anchor was subject to full snatch loads.

Only bad experiences on Bruces -- admittedly in difficult holding in Croatia (rocky bottom) and Windward Islands. Generally set easily but poor holding -- I had a number of frightening dragging experiences.


So my totally unscientific, unobjective conclusions: Rocna very good, Spade better, Delta not that good, CQR and Bruce unacceptable. I never tried a Manson, because at the time I bought my Rocna it was unavailable from stock in the UK, and more expensive than the Rocna.

Oh, and as someone said -- your intended use is all-important in choosing an anchor. If you only anchor in good weather, your choice of anchor is not very important. If you anchor in all weather like I do -- well, it's understandable why some people are obsessive and exhibit strange behavior, where anchors are concerned.
 
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Re Robin and Dockhead. Brilliant, genuine experience related without rude or demonising adjectives . Magazine standard reporting. It can be done, eh!



The Lounge next anyone?
 
I've just bought a Manson this year to replace the c*** plough anchor that came with the boat which I never got to set properly. The Manson is fantastic in comparison - always works with the result I've anchored several times this year. It's possible a bit small for my boat, 12kg on a 33' Moody bit I don't intend anchoring in hurricanes! I also have a kedge aluminium Fortress which is also fantastic holding in our East Coast mud., but I use the Manson as our bower anchor.
 
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