Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting World.

Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

Guess I'll have to stop at a local magazine vendors and spend a few minutes reading YW.

By the way, the editorial in the latest issue of Nudist Canoeist is spot on. I'm sure you'll agree after your issue arrives.

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Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

Was the the one where got his paddle stuck up his mate's cheek?

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Re: Steve...

I suspect that most don't buy ANY IPC mag!

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
Re: Steve...

YW has been quite good last few months, better than the others sometimes.

Er no, I don't have December issue yet!

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
 
Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

Just wondering when anybody would enlighten me with some details. Perhaps a discussion can start. I'm getting a bit entrigued (??) but for sure not able to get hold on that issue for another month.....

<hr width=100% size=1>Quite boaty, ain't it?
 
Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

"By the way, the editorial in the latest issue of Nudist Canoeist is spot on. I'm sure you'll agree after your issue arrives."

Spots on what?

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

" Proof: they privatised air traffic control.! Please explain to me how you can make a profit out of safety."

Same way you make a profit out of anything - sell it for more than it costs to provide.

Absolutely nothing to do with Tony being socialist or not, unless you hold the view that socialism involves doing everything at a loss, ie subsidised.

Not that any of this has much to do with boating, or even IPC magazines. For myself, I shall wait for the article to appear in PBO or YM since everything else seems to appear in all three.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

" Was the the one where got his paddle stuck up his mate's cheek?"

No, I think it was something about the unintended consequences of having SWMBO apply sun-protection lotion to your, shall we say, "responsive" areas vs. the importance of protecting aginst skin cancer.

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serious reply, dissenting

I read it last night. I dont agree with him

He mixes up two separate points. One, there is a rant about whether money is important in yacht racing. In other words if someone wins but had a much bigger budget and hence a fancier boat than the competition, is that a real victory? Two, there is a rant about whether a country can be said to have won a race when the skipper had a differnt nationality (referring to the Swiss AC win, boat was skippered by a NZer Russell Coutts)

They're quite separate points so not approriate to mix em up, for starters. He also rants more than suggests better alternatives.

On the "money" point he begins by quoting a Paul Elvstrom remark along the lines of "you're not a winner if your competitors dont respect you". How insulting to Ellison et al! Elvstrom's remark was about fair play. OK, someone with money might have a racing advantage but that's a function of the racing rules, and there are one-design classes for those who want something different, so suggesting that rich racing boat builders belong in the same camp as cheats is quite wrong, and insulting to them. The high tech raceboats built by Miller, Ellison and other sources of private wealth are praiseworthy projects that advance the sport and the technology.

Moving on from the insult, I disagree with him anyway. If you have a yacht race it's just that. First over the line gets the cup. Money produces an advantage of course (can buy better boat) but it would be absurd to have a portsmouth moneyyardstick. What about the Mr Poorguy up the street who cannot afford any boat at all cos he is broke, though he is a fine sailor, maybe even the best sailor in the world? Shall we give him the cup becos he would have won it had he owned a boat? Of course not. So, in open boat racing having the money to compete is actually part of the competion, I'm afraid. That should be left as is. Anyone who wants to sail one-design, so only helmsman skill counts, is free to. Of course they'd be wrong, it's NOT just helmsman skill that counts. Money still counts becuase the world's best sailer, aforementioned Mr Poorguy, still can't compete cos he cant afford a Laser. So, even the one-design racer only wins becuase he had the money to compete. Unless you nationalise it, you cannot remove the money element from a sport such as yacht racing (and for reasons I wont detail now, nor should you imho)
 
Re: Robin Knox Johnston says it all in Yachting Wo

Does profit now come before safety?
That maybe /definatly imo explains the raft of rail accidents (i'ii call them that purely for ease of entry) post the disastrous privatisation of the railways.
No investment in the infastructure, system falls apart, but the bottom line looks ok, until the dead bodies start rolling on in.
Surely the govt has a responsibility to ensure something works!

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Blue Tony

Absolutely nothing to do with Tony being socialist or not, unless you hold the view that socialism involves doing everything at a loss, ie subsidised.

Call me naive, but I'd like to think that elementary safety (on the road, water or in the air) is something we pay tax for. Don't see the need for anyone to make a profit here.
IMHO government is there to provide a services to it's citizens funded by taxation. WE all pay for it.
Hence this stuff should not be privatised, it does not lead to better / cheaper service. Rail is privatised; yet we, the taxpayer, subsidise private companies to run the ral network.

While I'm at it: see no need for light dues (we paid for them already), UKHO makes us pay for charts - we paid for them already! For once the US have got that one right. Have downloaded free of charge from the US pilot gides, tidal atlases, reference books, etc...

Rant over

<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
 
Re: Tell me the old old story....

I agree with much of what you say though I haven't read the piece but Robin knows how to stir a debate.

Firstly being loaded doesn't disqualify you from being respected. It is no certainty that the biggest budget wins the race either. It just means your using good kit and surrounded my good people to.

Few pro yacht racers were born with a sailing silver spoon. They earned their reputations by working hard and winning in a variety of classes to get to the top, where the big bucks now are. The fact that when Robin did his stuff and to a much lesser extent I did a bit, there was no sponsorship and so no money, is just the way it is. It doesn't reduce the achievements of todays sailors one jot.

As to owners. I doubt they've changed much, just the numbers have got bigger and they might know the names of some of the grinders these days.

Nation status is a different problem. With the technology involved in stuff like AC racing these days not only is a pure home bred campaign impossible, it would be commercial suicide. So if the technology and intellect, can be internationalized why not be flexible about crew nationality to. These days the crew is just part of the machine.

Next thing we know. Somebody will suggest that money's spoiling the sport, premiership football, and it's foreign inffluences, will be used as an example.

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Maybe I\'ll scan it and post it somehow.

Jeeze, I didn't expect to stir up such controversy!

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
Re: Tell me the old old story....

I agree all you say Peppermint. R K-J doesn't however :-)

Incidentally, I just looked at the mag again. It says that next month they will have an article on Athena, one of the YM journos has been for a sail on her. That should be worth buying the mag for. I've been on her predecessor (briefly, for about an hour) Hyperion, and that was remarkable, the world's most computerised sailboat (prior to Athena)

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Re: serious reply, dissenting

I have not read it, but it sounds as if the talk is about money, fair play etc. All of these are present in plenty in the America's Cup.
The 1934 America's cup might be of some use in the argument.... Endeavour v Rainbow..... Vanderbilt gave up when Sopwith was heading for a 3 nil lead and handed over to Hoyt. Hoyt managed to beat Sopwith with a combination of guile, seamanship and gamesmanship.

Regards Briani

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