fien397
Member
Sorry I don't really get your point. In your previous post you say they spend to much on boats or they are too expensive, but you now seem to be implying they aren't spending enough? Am I missing something?
RNLI Rescue of Peterhead
- Thread starter Romeo
- Start date
caiman
Member
Sybarite-I am in agreement with you on many points.I remember when,on this forum, you were ridiculed on your opinions about the Shannon Launch and Recovery System(SLARS).IMHO,you were correct then, as you are now .It is a monstrosity,a very delicate one at that.I heard last week that the gearboxes are failing and the 'firm' is looking at alternatives.(same as the gearbox situation on the Shannon itself).
I do have to say that I am very impressed by the performance of the Shannon.The manouverability is fantastic compared to the Mersey(the Lifeboat class it replaced)The speed and sea keeping are also amazing.There is a question of how it performs in airated water/surf as was illustrated recently on the South East coast when the boat could only get up to 6 odd knots while attempting to be recovered to the beach.On that occasion it was only by the grace of God that the boat didn't go over.It was also fortunate that, on that occasion,the capsize switches were faulty.If they had activated,then I'm firmly convinced that the boat would have been lost.I wasn't there at the time,but have spoken to someone that was.(on You Tube)
RE Claytons,the last price I have for a SLARS is £1.5M in the years 2015/2016,so, for the price of two SLARS units ,the RNLI have bought the factory,plus have the goodwill of the workforce,and so the future maintenance costs(which I believe will be extreamly high) should be a bit lower than if they were paying an outside firm,who would of course,want to make a profit.I also believe that the price included many SLARS spares.
With ref to costs versus inflation,I set out some figures from the RNLI below-
2009/10 D Class Lifeboat(IB1) £31,000. Atlantic85 (8.5mRIB) £160,000
2012/13 D Class " " £39,000 " " £204,000
2013/14 " " " " £41,000 " " £214,000
2015/16 " " " " £48,000 " " £214,000
2019 " " " " £52,000
Bearing in mind that the RNLI make these themselves.
2012/13 Shannon Class £1.5M
2013/14 " " £ 2M
2015/16 " " £2.1M
2019 " " £2.2M
These are also constructed in the RNLI's own factory.(Separate fund raising event to raise the 10M required to build)
I do have the missing years costs but cannot put my hand on them at the moment.I think the present cost of an IB1 is some £58K.
Thank you for your continued support of the volunteer Crews.I also add my support for the Full Time Lifeboat Crew.ie full time Coxswains and Mechanics,who,having taken the 'Kings Shilling' have no choice but to turn up for a shout.
Cheers
Just seen your last post,when I finished as a Full time Mechanic,my finishing wage after 25 years of service was less than the annual contribution into the (then) directors pension 'pot'.One of the reasons I finished and went back to being a volunteer.
I do have to say that I am very impressed by the performance of the Shannon.The manouverability is fantastic compared to the Mersey(the Lifeboat class it replaced)The speed and sea keeping are also amazing.There is a question of how it performs in airated water/surf as was illustrated recently on the South East coast when the boat could only get up to 6 odd knots while attempting to be recovered to the beach.On that occasion it was only by the grace of God that the boat didn't go over.It was also fortunate that, on that occasion,the capsize switches were faulty.If they had activated,then I'm firmly convinced that the boat would have been lost.I wasn't there at the time,but have spoken to someone that was.(on You Tube)
RE Claytons,the last price I have for a SLARS is £1.5M in the years 2015/2016,so, for the price of two SLARS units ,the RNLI have bought the factory,plus have the goodwill of the workforce,and so the future maintenance costs(which I believe will be extreamly high) should be a bit lower than if they were paying an outside firm,who would of course,want to make a profit.I also believe that the price included many SLARS spares.
With ref to costs versus inflation,I set out some figures from the RNLI below-
2009/10 D Class Lifeboat(IB1) £31,000. Atlantic85 (8.5mRIB) £160,000
2012/13 D Class " " £39,000 " " £204,000
2013/14 " " " " £41,000 " " £214,000
2015/16 " " " " £48,000 " " £214,000
2019 " " " " £52,000
Bearing in mind that the RNLI make these themselves.
2012/13 Shannon Class £1.5M
2013/14 " " £ 2M
2015/16 " " £2.1M
2019 " " £2.2M
These are also constructed in the RNLI's own factory.(Separate fund raising event to raise the 10M required to build)
I do have the missing years costs but cannot put my hand on them at the moment.I think the present cost of an IB1 is some £58K.
Thank you for your continued support of the volunteer Crews.I also add my support for the Full Time Lifeboat Crew.ie full time Coxswains and Mechanics,who,having taken the 'Kings Shilling' have no choice but to turn up for a shout.
Cheers
Just seen your last post,when I finished as a Full time Mechanic,my finishing wage after 25 years of service was less than the annual contribution into the (then) directors pension 'pot'.One of the reasons I finished and went back to being a volunteer.
fien397
Member
I must admit a always struggle to see the nearly £50k for a D class, Fantastic boats, but £50k? Really?
Dont think I could be in a paid role either, nearly applied for a DAT role a few years back, until I saw the salary ?
It is an insult the salaries they dish out for cox and mechs, given what they pay some of desk dwellers in Poole.
dom
Well-known member
The misteatment, discrimination and degradation of women around the world under the cloak of religion, particularly Islam and catholisism is utterly shameful, but is perhaps beyond the limits of thread drift, and not really in the spirit of the OP
You wrote,
“I have to say i find it a tad sad when people moan about "services it provides abroad"
....If they were white kids on our shores, I'm sure the debate would have taken a different direction.”
I’m simply pointing out that this is FAKE NEWS against make believe critics; ostensibly, it would seem to cover up an RNLI error of judgement. I’ve never met anybody that racist and if they exist I’ll bet they’re in the 0.001% of RNLI donors.
It makes one think about the truth surrounding the dismissal of long-standing crews, etc., heightened by the RNLI’s propensity to big-up ‘rescues‘. One cannot help but notice that “sorry” or “maybe we got that wrong” or even just “perhaps we could do that better” seem to have vanished from the RNLI’s vocabulary.
The management needs a shake-up and a truth-up IMHO
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caiman
Member
dom-It is a long standing joke on the coast that the' L' in' RNLI' has never stood for Logic,but the' I ' does stand for Intransigent.
Cheers.
Cheers.
harvey38
Well-known member
What I don't understand is how the Chief executive of a charity draws a salary of £160k, unbelievable ? ? ?
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
There is an argument that you have to pay well to get quality staff. This argument does not, obviously, apply to lifeboat coxswains, mechanics or crews, just to people with expensive suits and thin watches ... by whom, curiously, the argument is also made.
My bit of SW Scotland has had huge amounts of money pumped in later: Biosphere money, windfarm money, Galloway Glens money ... millions. None of it does any good, because it is all given as grants by nice, well meaning people to other nice, well meaning people who in turn give it to yet more nice well meaning people and by the time it has disappeared we have lots of signs, lots of posters and projects and public engagement meetings ... and no jobs. Unless you're a nice well meaning person. The poor people, for whom the money properly spent could actually make a difference, remain untouched by it.
In my experience, charities which do just one thing (Water Aid, for example) often do it well whereas those which run multiple projects in multiple areas often seem to exist more for their staff than their supposed recipients. Oxfam is a good (ie notoriously bad) example of this.
Back to the RNLI, I can see why they might see drown-proofing in overseas places as a worthy aim, but I hope they do it by funding local partners and not by trying to run things themselves. The world has quite enough white saviours already.
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Mark-1
Well-known member
For the same reason that you're not working full time for less than the market rate right now. The number of capable people I know willing to devote their life to good works for a token salary is zero.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I *think* all full time staff members of the RNLI are paid a salary. Mechanics are typically full time and paid. The (few) full time crews and coxswains are also full time and paid.
I suspect if there was ever a significant shortage of Crews/Coxswains they'd have to pay them, but understandably people are willing to do the exciting part time jobs like crew for free whereas people aren't willing to do full time jobs in the head office for free.
If we were Clayton's employees would we all stop drawing full salary when we got bought by a charity?
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caiman
Member
In all fairness to the current Director of the RNLI ,he did voluntarily take a 50% wage cut when Covid hit our shores.Whether he is still on 50% I don't know.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Sybarite
Well-known member
Except that in France they do but they do have a very more decentralized set-up - no swanky HQ....
That's why the SNSM's operating budget is about 1/10th that of the RNLI's.
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Sybarite
Well-known member
I took the £2.5m as the current cost of a Shannon from one of their fund-raising announcements. If the figure was wrong then that is even more worrying.
A few years ago I looked at the cost of RIBs around the size of the Atlantic 8.5m. From a selection of around 20 (iirc) the most expensive was less than half the price of the RNLI boat.
Sybarite
Well-known member
The RNLI has very large reserves and therefore there is no downward pressure on costs. This tends to lead to extravagance and bad business practice. That may be OK when the money is rolling in, but when that is curtailed - as may well be the situation in the near future then it is surprising how quickly funds evaporate. (I had a client, initially booming, whom I could not convince to adapt his ways and he ended up going bust and losing his home. But then he was an engineer and I was only a bean-counter....)
In France the SNSM uses outside architects and have several firms which build boats to their specification. The basic specification ie the pantocarene hull, is now used all over the world thus spreading risks as well as development costs. It also enabled them to bring the AWB to launch within 3 - 4 years of first studies. The Shannon took around 13 years and so those develpment costs - including a major hull re-design - probably got rolled into their cost.
When production of the Shannon was transferred from Berthon's, Berthon's announced that they would continue to manufacture it for other customers. I wonder how many they have since sold?
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Mark-1
Well-known member
In Britain we have Independents, so we do have a decentralised arm of our Lifeboat provision and they don't require a "full time CEO of a large organisation" role.
We also have a massive National organisation that does require full time large scale management.
Rightly or wrongly in the UK we choose to fund both models, and that's our choice. If we didn't like the centralised model, we could stop funding it, but we do, and that's our choice.
Mark-1
Well-known member
More than that, they are legally required to spend a great deal. They can't hoard wealth because, quite reasonably, the Charity Commission will be on their case again.
Coming up with ways to spend less is not helpful to an organisation that needs high outgoings.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
With reguard to the comments about calling the Lifeboat earlier; my observation is a resounding YES the Fishing boats were too close to the shore and a rocky one at that; if all had gone well and no towing probs then they would have probably got away with it; BUT that close to shore with an on shore gale blowing there would have been NO leeway if the Tow Rope parted or the towing vessel experienced difficulties; time is KING in those very difficult sittuations, so caution and removing all doubt about success should be parramount in decisions
Mind you a bit strange that them Fishing Boats were that close into shore and the Lifeboat had not been launched to stand by by the Coastguards anyway; very strange to me, but just maybe thats how they do it in Scotland ; The coastguars surely have a Duty of Care and part of that is to prevent Polution, them Fishing Boat tanks must surely have had a lot of Fuel onboard
Mind you a bit strange that them Fishing Boats were that close into shore and the Lifeboat had not been launched to stand by by the Coastguards anyway; very strange to me, but just maybe thats how they do it in Scotland ; The coastguars surely have a Duty of Care and part of that is to prevent Polution, them Fishing Boat tanks must surely have had a lot of Fuel onboard
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Well maybe just maybe not !
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
So can I ask, why does not the RNLI offer lifeguards either at no cost or reduce their charges to Councils etc who pay for the Lifeguards in an effort to saves lives on our Beaches; for certainly lives are and have been lost unessarily, recall that Camber Sands loss of I recall 4 or 5 fellas of foreign origins who just went paddling on the sands as the tide went out, but got cut off when the tide turned; no Lifeguards, but Camber Sands is a Top Spot for bathers and families, its a huge space overall; but the RNLI did not choose to staff it; according to the accounts on here from RNLI Insiders the RNLI do have sufficient funding to easily fund and so staff the Camber Sands;
SO ?
Mark-1
Well-known member
No idea. If you're asking me to guess I'd guess that might actually burn fat more cash than they can spare - they'd have to do it free for all councils if they do it for one - but I have no idea.
pathfinderstu
Member
Yes but the crews that actually do the job work for nothing ?