Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
OK, so one of them has a puncture and one has a broken harness ring. Which do you choose to wear?
RNLI & harnesses
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OK, so one of them has a puncture and one has a broken harness ring. Which do you choose to wear?
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
I think you will find, if you look into it more deeply, that what they are really saying is that marine safety begins and ends with YOU and that they are offering you advice on the usefulness of various items of equipment including lifejackets.
Have you had a visit from a SEA adviser?
maxi77
Well-Known Member
We do carry spare lifejackets, and would not go to sea with defective gear like that anyway.
Mind you keep grasping, you may reach the straw
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Can you point us to the "advice on the usefulness of various items of equipment" please??? I'd like to read it. Might settle a few arguments. (Flares verses VHF/EPIRB/Mobile Phone; LJ verses clipping on; Life Rafts; for starters.)
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I think we can put Maxi down as a "Don't know."
I *do* know.
In the scenario described I would 100 per cent want to be clipped on, even if that meant no LJ. In contrast if I was cycling on a tow path, fell off, banged my head and went in the water unable to help myself I'd want to be wearing an LJ and clipping on would be irrelevant.
Which just goes to show you cannot reduce marine safety down to "Useless Unless Worn."
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Thanks, that's exactly what I was asking for. Have flicked through "Sea safety, the complete guide" and will read properly during the week.
Croak
Well-Known Member
I can't see any mention of harnesses on that site.
Maybe I nead a search feature.
Maybe I nead a search feature.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I'll check for myself but I think you must be mistaken. There is no way that the RNLI would publish "advice on the usefulness of various items of equipment" in a document called "Sea safety, the complete guide" and not mention harnesses or jack stays. That would be laughable. Even if they had I doubt that Doghousekeeper & Cornish would be foolish enough to draw attention to the document.
Croak
Well-Known Member
"jack-stays " is mentioned
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
Oh. Oh. I sense a discussion on the definition of "complete" looming
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Why?
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't know. Just because, really
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
You didn't answer my question about having a SEA visit, so I guess you haven't had one. Volunteer advisers have been thoroughly trained to discuss these matters and I guess you might benefit from a visit.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Sorry no I didn't and I haven't and I have no doubt I'd benefit.
Could you point me at the Syllabus for the training he will have been given so I can get an idea of the thing he will be trained to tell me?
Have you had an SEA visit? What did you learn from it?
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alant
Well-Known Member
Help - I'm drowning! But its OK I'm having fun!
Mine, was not a comment upon commercial v leisure, but safety!
The example was to indicate that correctly fitted/located clip on points/jackstays, do NOT cause users to be dragged alongside drowning.
Its this attitude that makes compulsary regulation MORE likely!
Mine, was not a comment upon commercial v leisure, but safety!
The example was to indicate that correctly fitted/located clip on points/jackstays, do NOT cause users to be dragged alongside drowning.
Its this attitude that makes compulsary regulation MORE likely!
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Well, I was just pointing out that commercial is regulated and that leasure should pay attention to what makes sense. Perhaps I could have phrased it better. But I am still against regulation in leasure, mainly because it will eventually get out of control and affordability for the average guy, and not necessarily productive. I come from the era that learned on small boats and had no back-up. We were well aware of the results of screwing up. If it is part of your job to go out in rough conditions, then you should have every available safeguard. The rest of us can still choose, and take whatever risk we judge is acceptable.
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alant
Well-Known Member
'Olde folks' - Duty of care?
I agree, few in leisure sailing/boating want regulation, that is one of the reasons we go sailing - freedom from bureaucrats.
You, state "I come from the era that learned on small boats and had no back-up. We were well aware of the results of screwing up".
So, presumably having survived those long years, either by experience or luck, you may rightly be in a position to make a sensible assessment of any risk factors involved, hopefully continuing to survive many more years. During the "the era that learned on small boats" that encompassed your learning how to/how not to, you probably learnt from the experience of other more 'senior' sailors, absorbing this information over a number of years, thus building up your own capability to similar levels.
Many of today's sailors, seem not to want the luxury of walking this time honoured path, instead wanting a 'quick fix', learning to sail up to 'executive' level within a relatively short time scale. We might deplore that mind set, but must accept this is now the way things are.
Many of these 'new' sailors, will be gaining experience, not by getting cold & wet messing about in dinghies etc, but the 'modern way' of sitting at a screen & absorbing it from the 'absolutes' that come from these sources.
IMHO, we 'more traditionally experienced' individuals, perhaps owe them the equivalent of 'duty of care', by putting safe/sensible offerings onto websites such as ybw, rather than confusing them with arguments/advice about safety matters which often, stray into the realms of harry potter.
I agree, few in leisure sailing/boating want regulation, that is one of the reasons we go sailing - freedom from bureaucrats.
You, state "I come from the era that learned on small boats and had no back-up. We were well aware of the results of screwing up".
So, presumably having survived those long years, either by experience or luck, you may rightly be in a position to make a sensible assessment of any risk factors involved, hopefully continuing to survive many more years. During the "the era that learned on small boats" that encompassed your learning how to/how not to, you probably learnt from the experience of other more 'senior' sailors, absorbing this information over a number of years, thus building up your own capability to similar levels.
Many of today's sailors, seem not to want the luxury of walking this time honoured path, instead wanting a 'quick fix', learning to sail up to 'executive' level within a relatively short time scale. We might deplore that mind set, but must accept this is now the way things are.
Many of these 'new' sailors, will be gaining experience, not by getting cold & wet messing about in dinghies etc, but the 'modern way' of sitting at a screen & absorbing it from the 'absolutes' that come from these sources.
IMHO, we 'more traditionally experienced' individuals, perhaps owe them the equivalent of 'duty of care', by putting safe/sensible offerings onto websites such as ybw, rather than confusing them with arguments/advice about safety matters which often, stray into the realms of harry potter.
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
I cannot point you to the training syllabus as when I was initially trained as a SEA adviser I attended along with several others two days of instruction from the RNLI. This was then followed up with regular updates and training sessions as equipment and regulations etc changed. Sadly I have had to give up the work for personal reasons but I found it very rewarding while doing the visits and as far as I remember every owner whose yacht I visited was most appreciative of the advice I was able to give. All advisers at the sharp end are volunteers and a visit is free to the owner. You have nothing to lose, and are not coerced into doing anything such as purchasing equipment or becoming a RNLI Offshore member!
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Ok, thanks for that.
In the meantime can you point me at the RNLI's "advice on the usefulness of various items of equipment" which you promised me. I'm pretty sure you weren't referring to "Sea safety, the complete guide".
Please don't tell me the RNLI only offer "advice on the usefulness of various items of equipment" verbally on a 1-1 basis. That would be insane.
