25931
Well-Known Member
If the RNLI have the figures for people who were not wearing LJs when they drowned do they also have figures for those who were not wearing a harness ?
RNLI & harnesses
- Thread starter 25931
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Shorn100
Well-Known Member
Harnesses not suitable for all boats
There's a common misconception on this site that wearing a harness is preferable to wearing a lifejacket. In fact, you can wear both. However, can I just point out that in many boats the wearing of a harness is not suitable. You do not want to be towed alongside any boat that travels faster than 8 knots.
Shorn
There's a common misconception on this site that wearing a harness is preferable to wearing a lifejacket. In fact, you can wear both. However, can I just point out that in many boats the wearing of a harness is not suitable. You do not want to be towed alongside any boat that travels faster than 8 knots.
Shorn
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
The fact that their own boats have massive wire jack stays suggests that they have strong evidence that clipping on is a good thing. They just conceal it for some reason.
Same goes for helmets. They've obviously seen evidence that helmets carry a safety benefit but don't pass it on.
A cynic might say they they want to maximise rescue-able casualties. So they want to maximise the number of people getting separated from boats with injuries, but they want them clearly floating on the surface so they can be picked up from a lifeboat.
I'm not that cynical. I suspect that the grass roots RNLI understand safety at sea well but some of the guys in ribs and the RNLI management think water safety begins and ends with lifejackets.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Or that they are fulfilling their obligations as employers to mitigate risks and provide appropriate PPE and safe working practices.
Our cliff guys used to go down with hemp rope around waist rather than full body harness, helmet, gloves and much training. Are we sending out the message that climbing is dangerous?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Your cliff guys go out with full body harness, helmet, gloves and much training. Do they then recommend people other people climb using only a hemp rope around waist?
The RNLI go out in drysuits with helmets, massive jackstays. Then tell the rest of us that marine safety begins and ends with LJs.
"Hemp ropes. Useless unless worn!"
pcranness
Active Member
No much better to be sat bobbing about waving whilst the boat roars of at 8 kts.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
I don't know any LB guys who think safety is only about a lifejacket - but the RNLI, and the MCA who co sponsored the "useless unless worn" campaign, do have to take a realistic view about an easy to communicate public message, aimed at the public on a limited budget being able to get the single thing that is most likely to save them. It's a balancing act of practicality and cost.
Capok is the way forward!
Flapjack
Well-Known Member
OK simply question, if LJ's were made compulsory how many people would actually obey the law and wear them all the time and how would they police it, I would still wear one when I thought it was appropriate and would not wear one when I didn’t. This debate could go one forever and I don’t think it would change people’s behaviour or attitude. People still drive without a seat belt despite it being law for many years now, I always wear one (seat belt not LJ) but that is still my personal choice despite the law.
Shorn100
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you agree
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
The misconception is that a jackstay and harness system can not be rigged to make falling overboard almost riskless.
alant
Well-Known Member
Pilot Boats,
Crew Replenishment vessels
etc,
Commonly travel at 8+ knots, with crew on deck.
The difference being, where the clip on points/jackstays are located, not wearing & clipping on. Correctly located, you shouldn't fall in & be dragged/towed.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Hum.... Commercial is well regulated, while the leasure side (I assume that is what we are discusing here?) is less so.And I hope it remains that way.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Possibly because in the commercial world, the professional risk assessments show there is a compelling safety case for taking such precautions. It may just be that those risk assessments are equally valid in the leisure world, and yet people are free to chose that they think they know better. That does not change the risks or probablities, it just makes deaths more acceptable in the leisure world than the commercial one.
Commercial airliners are required to have a certain amount of fuel in reserve every time they land. Private aircraft are not, but are we seriously suggesting that it is any safer to fly on fumes depending on who owns the aircraft?
Maybe, rather than decrying the commercial maritime world, there may be some best practice there that is well worth adopting?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Well yeah.
I think the OP's question is pretty valid.
We have the numbers for people who died for lack of a LJ.
It would be interesting to see how many died for lack of other safety gear.
Life Rafts, Defibrillators, Clipping on, EPRIBS. All of that stuff.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Could be a nice little money spinner for the RNLI ...
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
They've never been policemen. Stop stirring, it's getting predictable and boring.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Ask the Irish, they have made PFD's compulsory as have a few other countries (Canada?)
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Get a shorter lifeline, then, or clip on in a more sensible place.
Here's a simple question I've asked before. It's night. It's blowing F7. Waves are 2m high. The roller reefing line has just broken and you need to go to the foredeck to tame the jib. Would you rather wear (a) a lifejacket but no harness or (b) a harness but no lifejacket? For some entirely artificial reason, "(c) lifejacket and harness" is not available to you as an option.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Bin there, done that. In addition to the lifeline can I recommend kneepads?
You can't stand, sitting makes it hard to move so kneeling is virtually obligatory. That's not a problem, nor is the wave that lifts you skyward. IT'S THE FOLLOWING TROUGH THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM. The boat falls away, leaving you in the air, the next wave arrives & up comes the boat to meet you as you fall. That's when you need the kneepads. It's particularly painful when you land on the side of a cleat or a shackle or similar.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Wholly artifical red herring, only option c is available on our boat.
