RNLI again.....income well spent?

[jordanbasset]

Annual cost to run SNSM = £22.5m
Knowing they have the equipment and expertise to rescue me if/when I screw up = priceless

I thought it as about 600 euros

 

[Robin]

I thought it as about 600 euros

was for me, see several earlier threads fot the full story.

 

[Mark-1]

MAJORITY

If there are 140 independents then the RNLI's stated number of 350 boats works out at 60%.

Undoubtably a majority but a smaller majority than I, personally, would have guessed. I also had no idea the majority of Solent based rescues are independents.

 

[rotrax]

I just Googled " Independent lifeboats in the UK " and got a figure of 50.

The RNLI also have around a 100 boats in reserve.

I dont know where the figure of 140 independents came from.........................

The Solent independents do a great job. They rescued and got to hospital an aquaintence who tore his wedding tackle off when it caught on his snap davits on the transom. I went to a fundfaiser for them-Hamble Independent IIRC-called the purple plums ball!

Ouch!

 

[Mark-1]

I just Googled " Independent lifeboats in the UK " and got a figure of 50.

Weird 'cos I googled the same phrase exactly and the first hit was Wikipedia which states: "There are at least 70 (see tables below) and as many as 100 independent lifeboat services operating throughout Britain and Ireland". That seems consistent with 140 boats.

I dont know where the figure of 140 independents came from.........................

From ChannelYacht's post, which you have replied to, and quoted. (Unless you mean you don't know where CY got it from, in which case fair enough.)

 

[rotrax]

Well, I've just Googled it again and the first on the list says that " There are more than 50 "

So, I suppose, less than 60. The RNLI do have lots of big all weather lifeboats, the independents tend to use smaller RIB's and in some cases are on inland waterways, so comparing apples and pears perhaps.

It is not relevant really, they all do a great job and are not paid for by taxation.

 

[dslittle]

With recent comments on the RNLI I had a brief look at their latest annual report, and noted the following:

Total Income £191.9M

Total Costs £171.3M

Capex £49.5 (to come from the reserves)

Gross Revenue for the year £- 28.9M

So a soundly run operation on a not for profit basis but then you look at;

Staff Costs £75.3m (39% of Revenue which is very high for any corporate organisation. Normally should be no higher than 20% for a business doing this turnover if it was tightly run so ‘rationalisation’ needed in the RNLI I think)

Of which 35 people take £2.285M

And the rest (excluding seasonal workers) of 1,608 make up the rest of the Staff Costs or approx. £73M which means an average salary of £45,407 for those 1,608.

What do they all do should be the question?

Even if you exclude all the ‘Lifeboat Service’ of 310, ‘Lifeboat Equipment & Property’ of 566 and the 65 in ‘Rescue and International’ you’re left with 104 in ‘Safety and Education’, 282 in ‘Support’ (whatever that is) 264 managing ‘Legacies and Donations’ and 17 in ‘Trading Activities’.

What do they all do, why are they paid £45K on average and are they necessary?

If I've misread or misunderstood what's in the report no doubt someone will let me know

I should say that none of the above is any criticism of the brave volunteers who put themselves at risk every time there's a "shout".

I don't bother with the Lounge but I am sure that someone there could provide the comparable financial figures for a Formula 1 Team - and then (justifiably) state the benefits of F1 development...

 

[Mark-1]

I just Googled " Independent lifeboats in the UK " and got a figure of 50.

Wikipedia states: "There are at least 70 (see tables below) and as many as 100 independent lifeboat services operating throughout Britain and Ireland". That seems consistent with 140 boats.

Well, I've just Googled it again and the first on the list says that " There are more than 50 " So, I suppose, less than 60.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_lifeboats_in_Britain_and_Ireland

 

[rotrax]

There other entries apart from wiki. Wiki is 2nd when I google it.

Everything wiki says is gospel?

Get real..............................................

 

[Sgeir]

Staff costs does cover more than just wages - probably adds an overhead of 10-20% on top of the salary

Yes. It's years since I personally budgetted for staff, but my rule of thumb was IIRC about 20% just for NI and the employers' contribution to the defined benefit pension scheme.

These were just direct employment costs, before taking into account accommodation costs, travel (where appropriate) etc.

 

[Bathdave]

Annual cost to run SNSM = £22.5m
Knowing they have the equipment and expertise to rescue me if/when I screw up = priceless

As long as the tide is in

All the french lifeboats in North Brittany and Normandy that I am aware of are kept in nice cheap marina moorings that are closed for half the tidal cycle.

If you need a lifeboat when the tide is out in french waters wound these parts, the french coastguard call out the jersey or Guernsey lifeboats .....

I think the cost of building and maintaining all tide launch and recovery capability is pretty substantial over and above all the other running costs

 

[Sybarite]

As long as the tide is in

Anybody who goes sailing when they know that the lifeboats are blocked at low tide deserve all they get...

And nobody at any of the 49 stations between St Vaast and Camaret has ever worked out how to deal with this problem.

All the french lifeboats in North Brittany and Normandy that I am aware of are kept in nice cheap marina moorings that are closed for half the tidal cycle.

Yep. If it's French it has to be cheap.

If you need a lifeboat when the tide is out in french waters wound these parts, the french coastguard call out the jersey or Guernsey lifeboats .....

Not only can the British boats go out when French boats cant but the lifeboatmen can walk on water.

I think the cost of building and maintaining all tide launch and recovery capability is pretty substantial over and above all the other running costs

Nonsense - a £1500000 boat trolley to launch a Shannon is a mere peccadillo..!!

PS Have you ever left Jersey?

 

[dogleg]

Not only can the British boats go out when French boats cant but the lifeboatmen can walk on water
I have never walked on water in 30 years but I have been washed from bow to stern and had water upto my waist,

seriously though as you know the Brittany and Normandy coast better than me is there no site where either an ALB could be beach launched or where a slipway could be constructed to enable an all tide launching ability ?

 

[Sybarite]

Not only can the British boats go out when French boats cant but the lifeboatmen can walk on water
I have never walked on water in 30 years but I have been washed from bow to stern and had water upto my waist,

seriously though as you know the Brittany and Normandy coast better than me is there no site where either an ALB could be beach launched or where a slipway could be constructed to enable an all tide launching ability ?

Of course I was being ironic and I never criticize the brave volunteers. Of either service.

I don't know N. Brittany that well but on my recent trip I saw plenty of boats in marinas accessible 24/7 and I saw others on slipways. There is no need for beach launched boats. Apart from RIBs of course. With 49 stations covering the zone St Vaast to Camaret you are going to have a mixture of solutions. Not forgetting that it is not just the SNSM which is called upon in emergencies; you also have La Douane, Les Affaires Maritimes, La Gendarmerie Maritime, the Navy as well as good helicopter coverage. Of course if he weather is really bad you have the ultimate all weather boat: the Abeille Bourbon 80m and 22000hp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DNXiYtOLmY

 

[Bathdave]

PS Have you ever left Jersey?

Not sure of the point you're trying to make, but I've been to 11 different french ports this summer. Why do you ask?

 

[Sybarite]

Of course I was being ironic and I never criticize the brave volunteers. Of either service.

I don't know N. Brittany that well but on my recent trip I saw plenty of boats in marinas accessible 24/7 and I saw others on slipways. There is no need for beach launched boats. Apart from RIBs of course. With 49 stations covering the zone St Vaast to Camaret you are going to have a mixture of solutions. Not forgetting that it is not just the SNSM which is called upon in emergencies; you also have La Douane, Les Affaires Maritimes, La Gendarmerie de la Mer, the Navy as well as good helicopter coverage. Of course if he weather is really bad you have the ultimate all weather boat: the Abeille Bourbon 80m and 22000hp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DNXiYtOLmY

Here is an example of an exercise (recovering a MOB) involving various different services coordinated by the CROSS.

The SNSM;
The Gendarmerie Maritime
The Navy;
The SCMM (the Samu - Service d'ambulance médicalisée d'urgence - de coordination médiaclisé maritime.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyVJeywvBQ

 

[Sybarite]

Not sure of the point you're trying to make, but I've been to 11 different french ports this summer. Why do you ask?

If that is the case I do not understand why you could affirm :

All the french lifeboats in North Brittany and Normandy that I am aware of are kept in nice cheap marina moorings that are closed for half the tidal cycle.

 

[[70521]]

Here is an example of an exercise (recovering a MOB) involving various different services coordinated by the CROSS.

The SNSM;
The Gendarmerie Maritime
The Navy;
The SCMM (the Samu - Service d'ambulance médicalisée d'urgence - de coordination médiaclisé maritime.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyVJeywvBQ

The plethora of services was the one criticism of the French way of doing things that a very senior French naval officer told me. He said that the English had a far more efficient way of doing things.

Perhaps if we add the costs for all the services involved we might find that the RNLI are actually more cost efficient that any other service. That might be an interesting exercise on a cold winter's night as the logs burn on the fire.

 

[Sybarite]

The plethora of services was the one criticism of the French way of doing things that a very senior French naval officer told me. He said that the English had a far more efficient way of doing things.

Perhaps if we add the costs for all the services involved we might find that the RNLI are actually more cost efficient that any other service. That might be an interesting exercise on a cold winter's night as the logs burn on the fire.

That was an example of how the services can interact; it doesn't mean that that happens on every rescue.

 

[[70521]]

That was an example of how the services can interact; it doesn't mean that that happens on every rescue.

I know, I know, but as you have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about relative costs twixt the two services perhaps costing the total cost of maritime rescue in both countries would be an interesting exercise. After all nobody on here will be able to influence the spend of each service.