River Hamble entrance - an idea

[LiftyK]

The entrance to the River Hamble can get quite lively and crowded but somehow it all seems to work. These days I enjoy cruising in a small sailing boat and in the past I’ve enjoyed life in a small motor boat. Variety is good and I’m all for boating in harmony, whether large / small / power / sail / paddles / oars .

Last Sunday late morning. I was approaching the Hamble entrance cardinal marks, returning with the tide. Many craft were going out to enjoy the fine weather. Just clearing the speed restricted area, the skipper of a large motor boat opened up the throttles and departed along the track parallel to the shore. It was all perfectly legal but resulted in seriously violent rolling and crashing in my boat, even after I took a 45 degree path into the wake. The wake also resulted in wet bedding. Of course I should have had the front hatch closed but being near the river mouth I was expecting gentle conditions.

This led me to think about how such a situation could be prevented. We’ve seen here in the forum encouragement to skippers of large motor boats to look back to see the effects of their wake and to act to minimise impact on others. We’ve also noted comment that some motor boats generate smaller wakes when proceeding at speed. Today, I don’t intend to revisit these points. I have another idea.

How about
1) Extend the six knot speed limit to the cardinal post or buoy
2) Encourage boats that generate large wakes to approach and depart the low speed zone at right angles to their usual track

For example, a departing large motor boat today would likely clear the low speed zone and head south, parallel with all other craft entering and departing. In future, as it cleared the low speed zone, it would head west as it accelerates, somewhat crossing Southampton Water to the west side before turnin south along the deep water channel. It would take a few seconds longer to reach Calshot but is no great inconvenience. Large boat skippers will sleep better knowing what considerate nautical citizens they are, admired by all.

At this stage you might be thinking “dream on - there‘s no way to communicate this to the entire Hamble boaty population. Well, there is.
a) nearly all skippers are in communication with the operator of their mooring or marina. The harbour master, if agreeable, could spread the word through these organisations
b) we can copy the practice adopted in Portsmouth harbour where the small shops channel and turning points are well signed by co,ourful and easy to read boards.

When large ships are in the vicinity of this area, skippers may need to take a different course or be patient. But let’s not create a long list of exceptions and instead deal with the main issue here, not mixing large wakes with smaller boats, particularly those sub thirty feet in length.

If you use the Hamble River, would you support such an initiative? Any ideas to improve or implement this new but simple idea?

 

[LittleSister]

I’m all for boating in harmony, whether large / small / power / sail / paddles.

What have you got against oars, then?

 

[steveeasy]

Actually im in and out all the time, well every 4 or 5 days. Honestly I just go with the flow. seldom do I encounter a problem. They can be a pain but they simply dont care, well those that do it. It was fun on RTIR morning. never ever seen so many craft. Had no problem all day. Never do. The only time I had a problem on the water was when someone Skippered my boat, they pushed thier luck fighting over a right of way. Just alter course. I know ive thread drifted. not sure there is a genuine reason for seperate channels for different size boats.

Steveeasy

 

[Elessar]

The entrance to the River Hamble can get quite lively and crowded but somehow it all seems to work. These days I enjoy cruising in a small sailing boat and in the past I’ve enjoyed life in a small motor boat. Variety is good and I’m all for boating in harmony, whether large / small / power / sail / paddles / oars .

Last Sunday late morning. I was approaching the Hamble entrance cardinal marks, returning with the tide. Many craft were going out to enjoy the fine weather. Just clearing the speed restricted area, the skipper of a large motor boat opened up the throttles and departed along the track parallel to the shore. It was all perfectly legal but resulted in seriously violent rolling and crashing in my boat, even after I took a 45 degree path into the wake. The wake also resulted in wet bedding. Of course I should have had the front hatch closed but being near the river mouth I was expecting gentle conditions.

This led me to think about how such a situation could be prevented. We’ve seen here in the forum encouragement to skippers of large motor boats to look back to see the effects of their wake and to act to minimise impact on others. We’ve also noted comment that some motor boats generate smaller wakes when proceeding at speed. Today, I don’t intend to revisit these points. I have another idea.

How about
1) Extend the six knot speed limit to the cardinal post or buoy
2) Encourage boats that generate large wakes to approach and depart the low speed zone at right angles to their usual track

For example, a departing large motor boat today would likely clear the low speed zone and head south, parallel with all other craft entering and departing. In future, as it cleared the low speed zone, it would head west as it accelerates, somewhat crossing Southampton Water to the west side before turnin south along the deep water channel. It would take a few seconds longer to reach Calshot but is no great inconvenience. Large boat skippers will sleep better knowing what considerate nautical citizens they are, admired by all.

At this stage you might be thinking “dream on - there‘s no way to communicate this to the entire Hamble boaty population. Well, there is.
a) nearly all skippers are in communication with the operator of their mooring or marina. The harbour master, if agreeable, could spread the word through these organisations
b) we can copy the practice adopted in Portsmouth harbour where the small shops channel and turning points are well signed by co,ourful and easy to read boards.

When large ships are in the vicinity of this area, skippers may need to take a different course or be patient. But let’s not create a long list of exceptions and instead deal with the main issue here, not mixing large wakes with smaller boats, particularly those sub thirty feet in length.

If you use the Hamble River, would you support such an initiative? Any ideas to improve or implement this new but simple idea?

Tricky. If you extend the 6 knot limit is it SOG or STW?
A RIB or other small boat at 6 knots SOG with an adverse tide will make a huge wake. And how do you police STW?
Sadly the only solution is sensible and considerate boaters. And you get people who aren’t in all types of vessel. I don’t think rules will do the trick.

 

[RobbieW]

Tricky. If you extend the 6 knot limit is it SOG or STW?
A RIB or other small boat at 6 knots SOG with an adverse tide will make a huge wake. And how do you police STW?
Sadly the only solution is sensible and considerate boaters. And you get people who aren’t in all types of vessel. I don’t think rules will do the trick.

When the limits were introduced, we could only measure STW. Today things are diferent with many more measuring SOG. I've long thought reversing emphasis on the signage would help - "Minimum Wash" in large bold font and "Max 6 kts" in smaller non-bold

 

[Elessar]

When the limits were introduced, we could only measure STW. Today things are diferent with many more measuring SOG. I've long thought reversing emphasis on the signage would help - "Minimum Wash" in large bold font and "Max 6 kts" in smaller non-bold

Agree re the signs.
My point though was not we can measure on our boats, it’s what the harbour master can measure unless he’s alongside you in his boat.

 

[Tomaret]

The entrance to the River Hamble can get quite lively and crowded but somehow it all seems to work. These days I enjoy cruising in a small sailing boat and in the past I’ve enjoyed life in a small motor boat. Variety is good and I’m all for boating in harmony, whether large / small / power / sail / paddles / oars .

Last Sunday late morning. I was approaching the Hamble entrance cardinal marks, returning with the tide. Many craft were going out to enjoy the fine weather. Just clearing the speed restricted area, the skipper of a large motor boat opened up the throttles and departed along the track parallel to the shore. It was all perfectly legal but resulted in seriously violent rolling and crashing in my boat, even after I took a 45 degree path into the wake. The wake also resulted in wet bedding. Of course I should have had the front hatch closed but being near the river mouth I was expecting gentle conditions.

This led me to think about how such a situation could be prevented. We’ve seen here in the forum encouragement to skippers of large motor boats to look back to see the effects of their wake and to act to minimise impact on others. We’ve also noted comment that some motor boats generate smaller wakes when proceeding at speed. Today, I don’t intend to revisit these points. I have another idea.

How about
1) Extend the six knot speed limit to the cardinal post or buoy
2) Encourage boats that generate large wakes to approach and depart the low speed zone at right angles to their usual track

For example, a departing large motor boat today would likely clear the low speed zone and head south, parallel with all other craft entering and departing. In future, as it cleared the low speed zone, it would head west as it accelerates, somewhat crossing Southampton Water to the west side before turnin south along the deep water channel. It would take a few seconds longer to reach Calshot but is no great inconvenience. Large boat skippers will sleep better knowing what considerate nautical citizens they are, admired by all.

At this stage you might be thinking “dream on - there‘s no way to communicate this to the entire Hamble boaty population. Well, there is.
a) nearly all skippers are in communication with the operator of their mooring or marina. The harbour master, if agreeable, could spread the word through these organisations
b) we can copy the practice adopted in Portsmouth harbour where the small shops channel and turning points are well signed by co,ourful and easy to read boards.

When large ships are in the vicinity of this area, skippers may need to take a different course or be patient. But let’s not create a long list of exceptions and instead deal with the main issue here, not mixing large wakes with smaller boats, particularly those sub thirty feet in length.

If you use the Hamble River, would you support such an initiative? Any ideas to improve or implement this new but simple idea?

I wouldn’t put too much store in Portsmouth’s signs - the rules are frequently broken/ignored.

 

[ashtead]

Maybe a few QHM volunteers could be deployed to keep a space clear for smaller boats - I’m sure they would like a change of scenery and as a pilot see whether large mobo behaviours improved.

 

[PhillM]

Tbh I have regularly had the same problem so a) I always sort my fenders and lines out well before the enterence so as not to get caught out by MB wake and b) treat the whole area with caution. Oh and c) try to avoid popular times / days if I can.

But most of all I just take it as a slightly less pleasent part of my fantastic hobby, which I choose to engage in at the most popular place on earth.

 

[LiftyK]

Tricky. If you extend the 6 knot limit is it SOG or STW?
A RIB or other small boat at 6 knots SOG with an adverse tide will make a huge wake. And how do you police STW?
Sadly the only solution is sensible and considerate boaters. And you get people who aren’t in all types of vessel. I don’t think rules will do the trick.

Indeed, but I really meant extending the area where opening up the throttles is prohibited rather than looking for policing. We already have speed limits so would use the same definitions. As others have noted, it is a rare event to get thrown all over the place so close to the river entrance, That said, it really was a violent roll, hence my desire to find something simple and workable. More of a best practice in busy times, out of courtesy, than adding rules.

If any owners of large motor boats read this and want to give it a try, do report your experience here. Perhaps the attraction of reviving up earlier in busy times will appeal to some. Meanwhile I will keep my front hatch closed upon Hamble entry and exit ?.

 

[LadyInBed]

What have you got against oars, then?

Oar ouses should be legalised to bring them under control and oars shouldn't be persecuted! ?

 

[fastjedi]

I agree ....... its not great having speeding boats in close proximity to yachts taking down their sails, often with crew at the mast

 

[lustyd]

I had to go into reverse yesterday as the exiting mobos were 5 abreast and I had nowhere to turn (starboard would have grounded us, port would have taken us into one of the boats on the correct side of the channel). Adding rules simply won't help because the ones causing issues are oblivious to them and the rest are already doing the right thing anyway. That was the first problem in a month and a half at sea though, the second being some dimwit cutting metal on the pontoon in Port Hamble and leaving metal swarf all over the place to get stuck in my ropes and cause injury. That one was a sailboat so...

Just avoid the hamble. In a month and a half through Channel Islands, France, Westcountry etc. we had zero issues. One day in the Hamble gave us two issues!

 

[RJJ]

I am afraid (and I try to put myself in MOBO shoes, which is a struggle as I don’t see the appeal) there are those for whom slamming the throttles within a couple of boatlengths of a yacht is the highlight of their day. Like racing me away from the lights (me in my Passat estate).

I know it's the minority but they bring shame upon the community.

I once waved down medium MOBO driver when we were at anchor behind Hurst Castle and he went through at full whack. Chippy oik came back to yell at me "how dare I tell him off, it's his ocean as much as mine". Didn't listen long enough for me to tell him there were children swimming close by, before he stormed off. Slamming the throttle and spilling my drink. True story.

 

[PhillM]

This may be controversial but tbh if I were a motorboater I might expect yachties to be sea worthy enough to deal with wake.

Now I know they have no idea of what it feels like.

But we can predict and avoid or take mitigating action.

 

[Boathook]

This may be controversial but tbh if I were a motorboater I might expect yachties to be sea worthy enough to deal with wake.

Now I know they have no idea of what it feels like.

But we can predict and avoid or take mitigating action.

I find wake is totally different from waves. Items that don't move in a F6 go flying in wake.

 

[PhillM]

I find wake is totally different from waves. Items that don't move in a F6 go flying in wake.

Oh I agree but I am just saying that from a mobo point of view, they would expect us to be setup to cope with it. I don't think that there are many people (mobo or yachties) who intentionally set out to spoil someone else's day on purpose. I guess education is the way forward, or as I have concluded, learn to live with it or try to avoid the worst times.

 

[PhillM]

I had to go into reverse yesterday as the exiting mobos were 5 abreast and I had nowhere to turn (starboard would have grounded us, port would have taken us into one of the boats on the correct side of the channel). Adding rules simply won't help because the ones causing issues are oblivious to them and the rest are already doing the right thing anyway. That was the first problem in a month and a half at sea though, the second being some dimwit cutting metal on the pontoon in Port Hamble and leaving metal swarf all over the place to get stuck in my ropes and cause injury. That one was a sailboat so...

Just avoid the hamble. In a month and a half through Channel Islands, France, Westcountry etc. we had zero issues. One day in the Hamble gave us two issues!

Or just avoid peak times. They are fairly predictable - mid morning and mid afternoon. Get up early and be out before they wake up and think about moving. Or get out the night before and anchor somewhere.

 

[Elessar]

Oh I agree but I am just saying that from a mobo point of view, they would expect us to be setup to cope with it. I don't think that there are many people (mobo or yachties) who intentionally set out to spoil someone else's day on purpose. I guess education is the way forward, or as I have concluded, learn to live with it or try to avoid the worst times.

I’ve always thought that to be a yachtmaster power you should be at least ICC level sail and visa versa.
Don’t forget that power boats at displacement speed are effected far more by the wake than sailing boats are as they have no keel.

 

[Stemar]

I once waved down medium MOBO driver when we were at anchor behind Hurst Castle and he went through at full whack. Chippy oik came back to yell at me "how dare I tell him off, it's his ocean as much as mine". Didn't listen long enough for me to tell him there were children swimming close by, before he stormed off. Slamming the throttle and spilling my drink. True story.

If it's a recognised anchorage and, especially if there were children in the water, That sort of idiocy should be reported to CHIRP. Someone official having a chat is more likely to get an oik's attention than anything wee can do short of ramming the bugger.