River Crouch Tuesday morning

[Bigplumbs]

Utter twaddle. I'm a skier and the overriding rule of the road is that you give way to downhill skier/boarders or at least on my planet. There are plenty of boarders who like to use skiers as slalom posts. Also the horrendous noise that these boards make put novice skiers off. That's apart from wiping all of the powder off the piste. There are plenty of inconsiderate skiers but to say all boarders are wonderful and all skiers are at fault is utter arrogant rubbish.

I do watch out for borders and which way they are turning only because there are so many idiots, not all, on boards. What you fail to consider is that there are a large variety of skill levels with skiers and any sensible experienced boarder will be constantly assessing and reassessing the situation and make decisions based on a constantly changing scenario just as any skier should be.

Now there is an argument about Skiing. Priceless

I think Ice Cream is made from Peanuts........ Lets have an argument about that as well shall we

 

[Bigplumbs]

Utter twaddle. I'm a skier and the overriding rule of the road is that you give way to downhill skier/boarders or at least on my planet. There are plenty of boarders who like to use skiers as slalom posts. Also the horrendous noise that these boards make put novice skiers off. That's apart from wiping all of the powder off the piste. There are plenty of inconsiderate skiers but to say all boarders are wonderful and all skiers are at fault is utter arrogant rubbish.

I do watch out for borders and which way they are turning only because there are so many idiots, not all, on boards. What you fail to consider is that there are a large variety of skill levels with skiers and any sensible experienced boarder will be constantly assessing and reassessing the situation and make decisions based on a constantly changing scenario just as any skier should be.

Amazing how so many people think its the others that are idiots.............

 

[Portofino]

Utter twaddle. I'm a skier and the overriding rule of the road is that you give way to downhill skier/boarders or at least on my planet. There are plenty of boarders who like to use skiers as slalom posts. Also the horrendous noise that these boards make put novice skiers off. That's apart from wiping all of the powder off the piste. There are plenty of inconsiderate skiers but to say all boarders are wonderful and all skiers are at fault is utter arrogant rubbish.

I do watch out for borders and which way they are turning only because there are so many idiots, not all, on boards. What you fail to consider is that there are a large variety of skill levels with skiers and any sensible experienced boarder will be constantly assessing and reassessing the situation and make decisions based on a constantly changing scenario just as any skier should be.

That’s the point failure to appreciate the other sides predicament due to ignorance. Beautifully illustrated btw .

It’s obvious you have never boarded !

Unless you have experience ,be it gooswinging a sailboat in still airs , backing a jib etc
It’s would be as easy to critique the raggies from a mobo perspective as you have boarders from a skier only .

Thanks for illustrating that :encouragement:

You need to do both activities as mentioned but someone above - to fully appreciate each other eg sail up a river against the ebb with out power and try snow boarding .

I live in ski resort btw ( when not on my boat driving it sympathetically with regard to raggies because I understand there predicament s having come from sail )

Chucking novices in the equation , both equations just complicates it ,even more in the sense it blurs the responsibility boundary’s.
Like if the OP said it was my first time out on my own ,so i thought I would tack all the way back .
Novice slope users either boarders or skiers are excused errors in my book .

Did you miss the considerate bit ^^^^ where I said we would sit at the side on our arses ( not cos we are knackered) cos we are awaiting for the slopes to clear .
So how many mobo s stop hold station with there engines ( some a widget to hold station ) and wait for the sailboat to tack , to see what’s he gonna do if unsure ?

Let’s look on the bright side this is boat forum .It’s a good job there’s no nautical equivalent of biathlon- one party carries a rifle

 

[Bigplumbs]

Oops, what have I started!

Just to clear up a couple of issues and perhaps fire a couple of shots back at those shooting from the hip.....

I've mentioned two separate incidents both involving two motor boats, and only possibly connected because I queried if they could have been the same pair.

The one I mentioned in my OP occurred on Tuesday morning in very light conditions, 2 or 3 knots of wind which was pretty much blowing straight down the river, as was the ebb tide. At that time we were desperately trying to keep the boat moving and when you get rocked it detaches the flow of air across the sails and brings us to a stand still. Modern sailboats don't just get blown along by the wind, they rely on the flow across them to generate lift so in order to get going again we had to turn the boat through 90 degrees (difficult when stationery!) reattach the flow and then as the boat accelerates and starts to generate some apparent wind we can bear away back onto our original course. Hence my frustration.....

The previous incident on the Thursday occurred when we were beating (going to windward) into roughly 15 knots of breeze so a completely different situation. Quite frankly I don't care how close you pass me then, we're going so fast it makes little difference as someone pointed out. I did feel partly responsible for that one because I do appreciate not everybody understands how sail boats work so have difficulty anticipating their moves. If I'd been more attentive to the situation instead of enjoying the sailing I wouldn't have crossed their bows in the first place, I would have short tacked mid river and stayed away from them, hence I was quite prepared to help the lead boat out, and if I were to bump into them I'd be quite prepared to apologise for any confusion caused.

Finally this happened somewhere between the Crouch cardinal and the Roach, well out of the 8 knot speed limit area. The river there is pretty wide, plenty of room for a 19' wide trimaran and a couple of motor boats to pass each other safely......

It is quite simple.... You want to play in your boat with all the issues around sailing and you expect others also wanting to play to accommodate you even if perhaps they have no way of knowing what you are doing.

 

[Lucky Duck]

WTAF?

The OP complained about two boats altering course towards him on an otherwise empty river and this gets posted...

 

[Triassic]

It is quite simple.... You want to play in your boat with all the issues around sailing and you expect others also wanting to play to accommodate you even if perhaps they have no way of knowing what you are doing.

OK mate, I'll try to give you a guide even you can understand...

When we look like this come as close as you like as fast as you like, but probably best not to go in front of us....



When we look like this we would very much appreciate it if you could avoid rocking us about.


Have a good day.

 

[Bigplumbs]

OK mate, I'll try to give you a guide even you can understand...

When we look like this come as close as you like as fast as you like, but probably best not to go in front of us....
View attachment 72919


When we look like this we would very much appreciate it if you could avoid rocking us about.
View attachment 72918

Have a good day.

You have missed the point. I will try again

You expect others to accommodate the foibles of your hobby and if they don't you get upset.

It seems something they did caused you to go slower. Well I can assure you many motor boaters have to go slower many times because of sail boats.

Get over it

 

[[2068]]

... and when you look like this, it’s probably not a good idea for your Dad to launch your dinghy straight into the path of 8000kg of Mobo that can only navigate in a narrow channel that is maybe 20m from that launch point.

I actually felt quite sorry for the dinghy sailor: she looked quite shocked to see a stationary wall of fibreglass in her way

(Random picture of similar dinghy)

Some context probably helps.
The blue bits are where I can safely navigate without ending up in the mud.
One of the largest sailing clubs in the UK is located on the spit of land to the East.
Generally, it all works fine. However ...
... I have limited options.

I can stop: depending on the wind direction and strength, I will have between 20 and 60 seconds before being blown onto the mud (to the North) or the beach (to the South) with no further control inputs.
I can stop and reverse: The boat immediately behind me might get upset though.
I cannot go upwards (without a crane).
I cannot go downwards (without sinking, this usually takes too long).
I can go sideways to a limited extent, see diagram below for how likely that is to be successful.
I can deploy lots of power and speed up, generating a large wake in the process. This also generally causes upset.
I can "lurk" at very slow speed if things look particularly busy and it's not too breezy. But I'd like to get out to sea sometime before lunch if at all possible.

 

[Bigplumbs]

WTAF?

The OP complained about two boats altering course towards him on an otherwise empty river and this gets posted...

You have to wonder if complaining about two boats altering course was worth posting about in the first place.

I hope he never gets given a cold cup of tea or the hissy fit that might follow would be unbearable

 

[Portofino]

Can we have a brief look @ rock ability ps .
Is a trimaran the least rock able compared to say a cat or monohull ?

Thinking of the opening scene of Hawaii 5 O , with those guys paddling the dug out canoe —- with one outrigger never mind two .They seemed to stay fairly upright.

 

[Bigplumbs]

... and when you look like this, it’s probably not a good idea for your Dad to launch your dinghy straight into the path of 8000kg of Mobo that can only navigate in a narrow channel that is maybe 20m of that launch point.
I actually felt quite sorry for the dinghy sailor: she looked quite shocked to see a stationary wall of fibreglass in her way

But you forgot sail boats must be accommodated at all costs no matter what they might be doing. After all they have far greater rights to the water than anyone else didn't you know that

 

[Bigplumbs]

Can we have a brief look @ rock ability ps .
Is a trimaran the least rock able compared to say a cat or monohull ?

Thinking of the opening scene of Hawaii 5 O , with those guys paddling the dug out canoe —- with one outrigger never mind two .They seemed to stay fairly upright.

Book him Dano .......... Changing course and coming near a trimaran

 

[Murv]

Just to clarify, there were, as confirmed, extremely light winds on Tuesday morning and plenty of room to keep well clear of the handful of sailing boats out enjoying the water

 

[Lucky Duck]

You have to wonder if complaining about two boats altering course was worth posting about in the first place.

I hope he never gets given a cold cup of tea or the hissy fit that might follow would be unbearable

Bet you might complain if a car deliberately drove into a puddle by the kerb making you a bit wet, not much different here IMHO

 

[[2068]]

But you forgot sail boats must be accommodated at all costs no matter what they might be doing. After all they have far greater rights to the water than anyone else didn't you know that

The Chichester Harbour Master does at least try to promote the idea of a shared space of water, and on the larger open sections of Harbour, it works reasonably well. If I watch a Moth planing towards the beach at 15kts, it's a fair bet that they are not planning to actually ram the beach at 15kts, but instead might soon put in a tack.

When you are trying to manoeuvre off the fuel berth, you managed to miss all the dinghies, then a paddle boarder (not allowed in the marina) asserts their "right" to go up the main marina channel, it's time for that rolley eyes emoji to be deployed again.

 

[Blue Sunray]

The Chichester Harbour Master does at least try to promote the idea of a shared space of water, and on the larger open sections of Harbour, it works reasonably well. If I watch a Moth planing towards the beach at 15kts, it's a fair bet that they are not planning to actually ram the beach at 15kts, but instead might soon put in a tack.

When you are trying to manoeuvre off the fuel berth, you managed to miss all the dinghies, then a paddle boarder (not allowed in the marina) asserts their "right" to go up the main marina channel, it's time for that rolley eyes emoji to be deployed again.

Or in my experience an XOD buffer gets rather offensive as apparently I should be getting out of his way in the Itchenor channel even when he is the overtaking boat.

 

[[2068]]

Or in my experience an XOD buffer gets rather offensive as apparently I should be getting out of his way in the Itchenor channel even when he is the overtaking boat.

“I’m racing! Get out of the way!”

 

[Triassic]

Well that's been an experience. I didn't come on here to start, or finish, an argument, just simply to try and find out why two skippers did something that was clearly so deliberate yet unnecessary (to me). I'm more than happy to share and listen to views, and with the exception of BigPlums who is clearly the resident troll it's been interesting to gain an alternative perspective. Hopefully I may have helped promote some understanding the other way as to why sailboats also do apparently deliberate and unnecessary things.

I absolutely don't subscribe to this stereotype attitude that lumps people into groups other than to hope we're all out there trying to have fun and stay safe. Cheers.

 

[Bigplumbs]

“I’m racing! Get out of the way!”

......

 

[Bigplumbs]

Well that's been an experience. I didn't come on here to start, or finish, an argument, just simply to try and find out why two skippers did something that was clearly so deliberate yet unnecessary (to me). I'm more than happy to share and listen to views, and with the exception of BigPlums who is clearly the resident troll it's been interesting to gain an alternative perspective. Hopefully I may have helped promote some understanding the other way as to why sailboats also do apparently deliberate and unnecessary things.

I absolutely don't subscribe to this stereotype attitude that lumps people into groups other than to hope we're all out there trying to have fun and stay safe. Cheers.

If you are going to accuse someone of being a troll just because you don't agree with them it would be a good idea to get their name right

Sorry if I gave the other side of the argument. You obviously live in a world where you like everyone to agree with you