River Crouch Tuesday morning

[AllanG]

Actually, in our case, because we almost can't. Multihulls are very light, but they have a significant amount of windage so require quite a bit of effort to move directly into wind. We only have a small (and light) 8hp outboard which is quite capable of propelling us in and out of moorings, and indeed at around 5 knots in a flat calm, but we would only make two or three knots in the conditions encountered on the Crouch that afternoon. When you compare that to the 12-13 knots we were making when we encountered the two motor boats you can understand why we were sailing instead.

If you were actually doing 12-13 knots, I don't see why you're making such a fuss about a bit of wash!!

 

[[2068]]

2) at 12 - 13 knots were you speeding in that part of the river . Sailing craft often think the speed limit does not apply to them

In many cases, it doesn’t apply.

 

[sailorman]

1) Perhaps you need to buy a larger engine so you can be considerate to others
2) at 12 - 13 knots were you speeding in that part of the river . Sailing craft often think the speed limit does not apply to them

How do you pass horses in your car on roads

 

[Bigplumbs]

How do you pass horses in your car on roads

If you think that is a fair comparison then you don't understand horses as opposed to me who has lived in and around then for 45 years

Just to help you Horses have a mind of their own last I was aware a boat does not.

It is the mind of a sailing boat skipper who sails in a confined area with other boats and doesn't put his engine on that concerns me.

So for clarity Horses have a Brain and can be skittish a sailing boat does not

 

[luptonj]

When you compare that to the 12-13 knots we were making when we encountered the two motor boats you can understand why we were sailing instead.

Now that would be my type of sailing
If I saw a yacht doing 12-13 knots, I'd assume they had a great big engine out the back and only had to sails up so they could pretend they were not under power.

If they were the same 2 boats, then perhaps they were expecting you to tack across the river again and were diverting to give you space.
And probably had very little idea of how much their wash would upset you or why you were "randomly" zig zagging across the river

A lot of boaters don't really seem to get how speed affects their wash, my "favorite" when I used to row, was boats coming down off the plane just as they reached you causing a huge wake, so they would pass you slowly, and I could do nothing but smile and nod as I tried to stay upright knowing they were trying to do good.

 

[MoodySabre]

So as not to hog the river and get in other peoples way and be considerate to other river users

This was a joke. Wasn't it? Noisy fossil fuel burner accuses sailor of being inconsiderate

 

[Bigplumbs]

This was a joke. Wasn't it? Noisy fossil fuel burner accuses sailor of being inconsiderate

Nope no joke. You have now played the environmental card. Now play the Health and Safety one why not

Do you own a car and is it electric or wind powered

 

[mlines]

Time to send the Saga Pearl II up the Crouch.

 

[sailorman]

Nope no joke. You have now played the environmental card. Now play the Health and Safety one why not

Do you own a car and is it electric or wind powered

could be electric powered via wind

 

[longjohnsilver]

Time to send the Saga Pearl II up the Crouch.

That would be difficult. I’m sat on my boat looking at it moored up on the River Dart.

Or maybe you’re referring to the slight incident here yesterday.

 

[Elessar]

This was a joke. Wasn't it? Noisy fossil fuel burner accuses sailor of being inconsiderate

Doubt it was a joke - just ignorance.

If there was a trimaran and just 3 other boats, on what planet could sailing be called inconsiderate? Tacking up the hamble on the ebb when it's busy maybe, but not this!

Fortunately most motor boaters can sail and can anticipate the actions of a tacking boat - but we only remember the plonkers. Just like most sailors appreciate that a mobo can become tricky at low speed if it's windy, the minority just assume the mobo is incompetent.

I've often thought that you shouldn't be allowed yachtmaster sail until you are at least dayskipper level in a mobo and visa versa. That's me agreeing with your snowboarder comment which was spot on.

 

[omega2]

Sailor men are only around in the summer, and they still say "sorry mate I did not see you"

 

[CLB]

I've often thought that you shouldn't be allowed yachtmaster sail until you are at least dayskipper level in a mobo and visa versa.

Thats an interesting thought. I wonder if more moboers have sailing quals than sailers have mbo quals. For my part, I meet your criteria. YM power, DS Sail.

Any yotties with YM sail out there also have DS power?

 

[MrB]

@Triassic, what make/type is your Trimaran? It sounds like good fun.

 

[Portofino]

With snowboarding you arc turns when it’s grips on a much longer radius than any skier .
Skiers ( those who can,t board ) don,t appreciate that and often pull up in “ your “ anticipated trajectory .
They ( skiers ) then take umbridge if you clip them or near miss .
You see as you go through the fall line and made a shift in balance you are either on the heel side or toe side ,which you then set in balance .
Heelside is backside because your back is facing the hill .Toeside is the frontside because your front is facing the slope .
Hence on Olympic commentary you hear front side 360 etc .

Suddenly up pops a skier right in front on your line oblivious .
We can,t turn as fast or as tight as a skier on piste .
The above applies on nice prepared piste .

Off piste or on a fresh dump then the boarder has the manoeuvring edge ( no pun intended) as now he can surf straight down the fall line putting a little edge either heel or toe to check the speed .
The bow wave of snow under the front of the board provides the resistance like surfing on water .

Anyhow on normal piste it’s usually skiers who are the inconsiderate ones and don,t realise how wide an arc the boarder needs to turn and once committed there’s no going back in a short distance .
Once flipped from one edge to the other settled your balance you have traveled many meters.
If it’s from toe to heel you are actually blind over the tail shoulder and once round can see properly.
This when boarder hit skiers .
Now a considerate skier will see a boarder on the front ( toe ) side is approaching the side of the piste and is soon gonna flip to backside / heel .
This skier will anticipate this and not stop or go near the anticipated trajectory.
Remember the boarder is blind to this skier .
If you ski and board you see / read what’s gonna happen .Skiers only can,t and stop in the arc s .
Skiers can see all the time boarders have a huge blind spot when on the toes / front side .

Re consideration boarders will often sit and wait in tricky places until the party of skiers have gone .
That why you see us sat on our arses at the side - we are waiting for skiers to 9iss off out of the way .

Back to sailboats the regs are clear if in doubt the moboer should slow down if that gives more thinking time to anticipate the action of the sailboat .
How ever ta tacking up a busy ish , a narrow stretch of water every time cos you can technically speaking ,is basically erring on the side of inconsiderate .
I used to sail too many moons ago and used to motor in out of busy areas and sail when clear .
So if the 8 Hp motor is not up the job on that particular berth then change that .
Save yourself all the grief by motoring properly to a clear area unhindered by wash .

 

[Elessar]

Back to sailboats the regs are clear if in doubt the moboer should slow down if that gives more thinking time to anticipate the action of the sailboat .
How ever ta tacking up a busy ish , a narrow stretch of water every time cos you can technically speaking ,is basically erring on the side of inconsiderate .
I used to sail too many moons ago and used to motor in out of busy areas and sail when clear .
So if the 8 Hp motor is not up the job on that particular berth then change that .
Save yourself all the grief by motoring properly to a clear area unhindered by wash .

There is nothing here to suggest the OP was in any way being inconsiderate.

 

[derekbland]

This is not a complete rant but if the two motor boat skippers who came down the Crouch yesterday morning around 7.30am happen to be on here I'd just like them to know how much I appreciated them diverting all the way across the river to the north side so that they could pass close either side of me before returning back across the river. When sailing in light conditions like that it's always nice to get rocked back and forth to stop us falling asleep and turning up to reattach the flow helps keep us entertained.

I have only one question, WHY?

I do not condone what they did but we are not all the same. I just finished my DS and sailed a bit years ago. I always do the correct speed limit and with safe clearance. I see some that motor in as far as they can get away with still on the plane. I also slow down when in the Solent if I am passing clos'ish to another yacht. One person put his hand up to say thank you but most look at you as if you are sh1t.


Whilst on my training I was entering Cowes Harbour keeping to the right of the channel. There was a small sailing boat with a very old gentleman in it that was heading at a slight angle towards me, he had no power. I had a boat in front one behind and a green boy around 15' to my starboard. I turned towards the buoy and passed within 5' to avoid a collision whilst my instructor was telling me to stand on as I had nowhere to go and the man was a fool. The man was an utter idiot and should never have been so far to the left of the channel (as he was going out) as he was.

Again not condoning what they did but it ain't all of us.

 

[Triassic]

Oops, what have I started!

Just to clear up a couple of issues and perhaps fire a couple of shots back at those shooting from the hip.....

I've mentioned two separate incidents both involving two motor boats, and only possibly connected because I queried if they could have been the same pair.

The one I mentioned in my OP occurred on Tuesday morning in very light conditions, 2 or 3 knots of wind which was pretty much blowing straight down the river, as was the ebb tide. At that time we were desperately trying to keep the boat moving and when you get rocked it detaches the flow of air across the sails and brings us to a stand still. Modern sailboats don't just get blown along by the wind, they rely on the flow across them to generate lift so in order to get going again we had to turn the boat through 90 degrees (difficult when stationery!) reattach the flow and then as the boat accelerates and starts to generate some apparent wind we can bear away back onto our original course. Hence my frustration.....

The previous incident on the Thursday occurred when we were beating (going to windward) into roughly 15 knots of breeze so a completely different situation. Quite frankly I don't care how close you pass me then, we're going so fast it makes little difference as someone pointed out. I did feel partly responsible for that one because I do appreciate not everybody understands how sail boats work so have difficulty anticipating their moves. If I'd been more attentive to the situation instead of enjoying the sailing I wouldn't have crossed their bows in the first place, I would have short tacked mid river and stayed away from them, hence I was quite prepared to help the lead boat out, and if I were to bump into them I'd be quite prepared to apologise for any confusion caused.

Finally this happened somewhere between the Crouch cardinal and the Roach, well out of the 8 knot speed limit area. The river there is pretty wide, plenty of room for a 19' wide trimaran and a couple of motor boats to pass each other safely......

 

[derekbland]

With snowboarding you arc turns when it’s grips on a much longer radius than any skier .
Skiers ( those who can,t board ) don,t appreciate that and often pull up in “ your “ anticipated trajectory .
They ( skiers ) then take umbridge if you clip them or near miss .
You see as you go through the fall line and made a shift in balance you are either on the heel side or toe side ,which you then set in balance .
Heelside is backside because your back is facing the hill .Toeside is the frontside because your front is facing the slope .
Hence on Olympic commentary you hear front side 360 etc .

Suddenly up pops a skier right in front on your line oblivious .
We can,t turn as fast or as tight as a skier on piste .
The above applies on nice prepared piste .

Off piste or on a fresh dump then the boarder has the manoeuvring edge ( no pun intended) as now he can surf straight down the fall line putting a little edge either heel or toe to check the speed .
The bow wave of snow under the front of the board provides the resistance like surfing on water .

Anyhow on normal piste it’s usually skiers who are the inconsiderate ones and don,t realise how wide an arc the boarder needs to turn and once committed there’s no going back in a short distance .
Once flipped from one edge to the other settled your balance you have traveled many meters.
If it’s from toe to heel you are actually blind over the tail shoulder and once round can see properly.
This when boarder hit skiers .
Now a considerate skier will see a boarder on the front ( toe ) side is approaching the side of the piste and is soon gonna flip to backside / heel .
This skier will anticipate this and not stop or go near the anticipated trajectory.
Remember the boarder is blind to this skier .
If you ski and board you see / read what’s gonna happen .Skiers only can,t and stop in the arc s .
Skiers can see all the time boarders have a huge blind spot when on the toes / front side .

Re consideration boarders will often sit and wait in tricky places until the party of skiers have gone .
That why you see us sat on our arses at the side - we are waiting for skiers to 9iss off out of the way .

Back to sailboats the regs are clear if in doubt the moboer should slow down if that gives more thinking time to anticipate the action of the sailboat .
How ever ta tacking up a busy ish , a narrow stretch of water every time cos you can technically speaking ,is basically erring on the side of inconsiderate .
I used to sail too many moons ago and used to motor in out of busy areas and sail when clear .
So if the 8 Hp motor is not up the job on that particular berth then change that .
Save yourself all the grief by motoring properly to a clear area unhindered by wash .

Utter twaddle. I'm a skier and the overriding rule of the road is that you give way to downhill skier/boarders or at least on my planet. There are plenty of boarders who like to use skiers as slalom posts. Also the horrendous noise that these boards make put novice skiers off. That's apart from wiping all of the powder off the piste. There are plenty of inconsiderate skiers but to say all boarders are wonderful and all skiers are at fault is utter arrogant rubbish.

I do watch out for borders and which way they are turning only because there are so many idiots, not all, on boards. What you fail to consider is that there are a large variety of skill levels with skiers and any sensible experienced boarder will be constantly assessing and reassessing the situation and make decisions based on a constantly changing scenario just as any skier should be.

 

[Bigplumbs]

With snowboarding you arc turns when it’s grips on a much longer radius than any skier .
Skiers ( those who can,t board ) don,t appreciate that and often pull up in “ your “ anticipated trajectory .
They ( skiers ) then take umbridge if you clip them or near miss .
You see as you go through the fall line and made a shift in balance you are either on the heel side or toe side ,which you then set in balance .
Heelside is backside because your back is facing the hill .Toeside is the frontside because your front is facing the slope .
Hence on Olympic commentary you hear front side 360 etc .

Suddenly up pops a skier right in front on your line oblivious .
We can,t turn as fast or as tight as a skier on piste .
The above applies on nice prepared piste .

Off piste or on a fresh dump then the boarder has the manoeuvring edge ( no pun intended) as now he can surf straight down the fall line putting a little edge either heel or toe to check the speed .
The bow wave of snow under the front of the board provides the resistance like surfing on water .

Anyhow on normal piste it’s usually skiers who are the inconsiderate ones and don,t realise how wide an arc the boarder needs to turn and once committed there’s no going back in a short distance .
Once flipped from one edge to the other settled your balance you have traveled many meters.
If it’s from toe to heel you are actually blind over the tail shoulder and once round can see properly.
This when boarder hit skiers .
Now a considerate skier will see a boarder on the front ( toe ) side is approaching the side of the piste and is soon gonna flip to backside / heel .
This skier will anticipate this and not stop or go near the anticipated trajectory.
Remember the boarder is blind to this skier .
If you ski and board you see / read what’s gonna happen .Skiers only can,t and stop in the arc s .
Skiers can see all the time boarders have a huge blind spot when on the toes / front side .

Re consideration boarders will often sit and wait in tricky places until the party of skiers have gone .
That why you see us sat on our arses at the side - we are waiting for skiers to 9iss off out of the way .

Back to sailboats the regs are clear if in doubt the moboer should slow down if that gives more thinking time to anticipate the action of the sailboat .
How ever ta tacking up a busy ish , a narrow stretch of water every time cos you can technically speaking ,is basically erring on the side of inconsiderate .
I used to sail too many moons ago and used to motor in out of busy areas and sail when clear .
So if the 8 Hp motor is not up the job on that particular berth then change that .
Save yourself all the grief by motoring properly to a clear area unhindered by wash .

Heck you write a lot