River Clyde / Glasgow City

JNKScot

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I don't think I ever travelled from St Enoch or Buchanan Street, but I can - just - remember catching the trolleybus from Muirend terminus, and I was on the last crossing of the Kelvinhaugh Ferry.



Yup. The Ferry.
St Enoch was the terminus for the train from Troon until it closed in 1966 and services were transferred to Central.

Buchanan Street for a school trip to the Festival Theatre in Pitlochry and a couple of other trips in the late 1950s/early 1960s

I was there for the last Gleska Caur; standing on the balcony of the City Chambers in George Square.
 

penfold

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I am old enough to have travelled from and to Buchanan Street, Central, Queen Street and St. Enoch.
Glasgow terminii have lacked sufficient platform space at peak hours for the last 20 years, the 12 platforms at St Enoch would have readily absorbed that traffic and allowed extra, retaining it in service would have allowed for another fast electrified route between Edinburgh and Glasgow when it was needed 30 years ago instead of waiting until they belatedly electrified Cowlairs and Winchburgh tunnels.
 

JumbleDuck

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Glasgow terminii have lacked sufficient platform space at peak hours for the last 20 years, the 12 platforms at St Enoch would have readily absorbed that traffic and allowed extra, retaining it in service would have allowed for another fast electrified route between Edinburgh and Glasgow when it was needed 30 years ago instead of waiting until they belatedly electrified Cowlairs and Winchburgh tunnels.
I used regularly to take the same train from Glasgow Central to see my grandmother in a nursing home. It normally went from Platform 11, and - presumably by some happy timetable coincidence - I could often look across and see Platforms 1 - 10, all empty. Probably only for thirty seconds or so and, as you say, the story is different at peak times.
 

Alicatt

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Town centre Glasgow early part of the last century:
glasgow1.jpg
Lots of docks wharves and quays oh and railway lines.

Did you know that there is a tunnel from underneath Glasgow Central to where it says Bridge Wharves on the river? They used to ship grain in and out of Glasgow Central to ships on the river and there are huge bins for storing the grain under the station, it was problems with rats that lead them to shut them down.
If you get a chance the Glasgow Central Tour is very informative and shows how well built the original station is and also it's role during the wars, lots of tunnels and disused platforms under the modern station.

Edit: the Her Majesty's Prison is referring to dear old Queen Victoria.
 

JumbleDuck

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Did you know that there is a tunnel from underneath Glasgow Central to where it says Bridge Wharves on the river? They used to ship grain in and out of Glasgow Central to ships on the river and there are huge bins for storing the grain under the station, it was problems with rats that lead them to shut them down.
Coo, I didn't think Central ever had goods services. Did they date from before the 1905 rebuild, perhaps?

If you get a chance the Glasgow Central Tour is very informative and shows how well built the original station is and also it's role during the wars, lots of tunnels and disused platforms under the modern station.

It's on my list. Apparent the two disused low-level platforms were to be restored for the tours. Here's a nice picture as they were when that was announced:

image.jpg
 

Alicatt

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Coo, I didn't think Central ever had goods services. Did they date from before the 1905 rebuild, perhaps?



It's on my list. Apparent the two disused low-level platforms were to be restored for the tours. Here's a nice picture as they were when that was announced:

image.jpg
I was surprised too, in the scheme of things it was not a vast quantity at a time, maybe a Clyde Puffer's hold full per bin, they were from the 1800s, there is more than just the one tunnel running down to the water, there is even parts of the old town under there, there are a lot of passages running to various points in the city centre from there.
In your picture they were planning on relaying the line from the low level to bring in an old engine with a couple of carriages and rebuild the station as it was in Victorian times, we were there in 2018, even my wife enjoyed the tour and she is hopping they hurry up and get the platform and train set up before we come back over, but I think Covid put paid to a lot of plans over the past few years.

This is in the same area as your pic but in the next tunnel along from it.
TXlAumrsm.jpg
 
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Around Kelvin Bridge and from the Clydeside Expressway you can see various old tunnels with steel gates barring access that were obviously incorporated into renovations and upgrades to road / path / park upgrades. The Rotunda tunnel is still in place, although unused, with both Rotundas renovated and in use.

Tunnels aside, there is significant Clyde waterfront that is undeveloped and ex industrial, with various uses: Rothesay Docks to the Golden Jubliee Hospital being significant examples at the Wester end. No doubt it is all owned by business entities waiting for the opportunity to either develop or sell on. The size of unused land is quite significant for a major city but calls into question the viability of any development, otherwise it would have been exploited. It could just be that business opportunities are not there for the density of population / economy size, hence the dereliction. Lets face it, the cities of England have larger populations that Scotland as a whole, hence have a viable population to support regeneration.

The bloke that owns (and recently had for sale, or has now sold) The Vital Spark at Inveraray, tried to organise development of the Govan dock area but the plans did not come to fruition. People have been trying for a few decades now but get thwarted by the current owners.
 

penfold

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There's an element of landbanking involved, it raises the question whether there's merit in charging business rates on land left derelict or addressing the more complicated one of LVT. The council can't even discharge their oversight responsibly never mind anything more complicated; the squinty bridge is a spectacular example, aside from the nugatory airdraft they couldn't even be bothered to design the thing with enough clearance for pedestrians to walk along the quayside which they designate as a walkway! As a result you have to divert and cross a busy road via an otherwise pointless pelican crossing.
 

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Interesting thread.
Regarding St. Enoch station, that brought memories of a girl that I met in the late 1950s. I used to take the Thames-Clyde Express from Leeds City to St. Enoch, usually at that time pulled by one of the Holbeck Scots over the Settle-Carlisle route.
Super nostalgia!
 

JumbleDuck

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Interesting thread.
Regarding St. Enoch station, that brought memories of a girl that I met in the late 1950s. I used to take the Thames-Clyde Express from Leeds City to St. Enoch, usually at that time pulled by one of the Holbeck Scots over the Settle-Carlisle route.
Super nostalgia!
I think the Thames-Clyde was the last major daytime train to use the GSWR (Dumfries) - Midland Railway (Settle) route to London. It moved to Central when St Enoch closed and staggered on until the Beattock route was electrified. However, the Glasgow - London sleepers went via Dumfries until the late 80s.

Sailing relevance? There used to be a single sleeper coach from Portsmouth to Edinburgh: it was coupled to the last train from Portsmouth to Birmingham, waited there for about three hours and was then coupled to the Edinburgh portion of the Lowland sleeper. When I was living in Oxford and sailing on the Clyde I used it regularly. The only downside was having to get up early and swap to the Glasgow lounge car at Carstairs northwards and not being able to go to bed until the trains were coupled at Carstairs again southwards. It only existed to take navy staff between Portsmouth and Rosyth, and stopped when Rosyth closed.
 
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bikedaft

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Town centre Glasgow early part of the last century:
View attachment 117251
Lots of docks wharves and quays oh and railway lines.

Did you know that there is a tunnel from underneath Glasgow Central to where it says Bridge Wharves on the river? They used to ship grain in and out of Glasgow Central to ships on the river and there are huge bins for storing the grain under the station, it was problems with rats that lead them to shut them down.
If you get a chance the Glasgow Central Tour is very informative and shows how well built the original station is and also it's role during the wars, lots of tunnels and disused platforms under the modern station.

Edit: the Her Majesty's Prison is referring to dear old Queen Victoria.
great map - thanks.

was not aware of the tunnel from Central to the riverside. have been down all the other low level disused tunnels.
 

JumbleDuck

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It's all water. My old Dad, a geographer, taught us from infancy that Glasgow was not built on the Clyde but along the Molendinar Burn. You can still see the grating where it emerges into the Clyde.
 

Skylark

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A fantastic contribution, thanks. On the contrary, I posed the original question as I have a unique opportunity to sail up the Clyde into Glasgow city and to experience the local history and culture. That’s well within my definition of sailing ?

Disappointingly, 3 days after contacting Kelvin Harbour via their website with a berthing query, I’ve yet to receive a response ☹️
 

bikedaft

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to the OP - suggest you just go. there are lots of places to tie up to, and the dock/boatyard just upstream of Clydebank if you do get chased off all of them - unlikely!

i rowed from Dumbarton to Renfrew Ferry about 10d ago, pontoon at Clydebank almost brand new. about amonth ago i was looking at Braehead pontoons, in good nick.

for the drainers ;-)

The Molendinar Burn

The Molendinar Burn Part II

there's not much he doesn't know about subterranean Glasgow.
 

Alicatt

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Reading that, it reminds me of our local hospital in the Vale of Leven which was built between 1951 - 1955 and designed to be able to survive a nuclear blast if the Submarine Base* over the hill was hit.
With the hospital what you see on the surface is a tiny fraction of what goes on underneath, it has huge tunnels and wards built into the hillside to act and provide health care in case of a nuclear war, most of these wards and tunnels have now been shut off and closed.

*Obligatory Boaty reference.
 

bikedaft

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Reading that, it reminds me of our local hospital in the Vale of Leven which was built between 1951 - 1955 and designed to be able to survive a nuclear blast if the Submarine Base* over the hill was hit.
With the hospital what you see on the surface is a tiny fraction of what goes on underneath, it has huge tunnels and wards built into the hillside to act and provide health care in case of a nuclear war, most of these wards and tunnels have now been shut off and closed.

*Obligatory Boaty reference.

sorry the tunnels are not there in the VOLDGH (i have worked there). unless you know where they are (i'm in Dumbarton, happy to visit of an evening!)

the kitchens are a lot bigger than needed, there is a rumour that perhaps this was for either further expansion or for post nuclear explosion needs/decontamination centre/radiation treatment etc?
 

Alicatt

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sorry the tunnels are not there in the VOLDGH (i have worked there). unless you know where they are (i'm in Dumbarton, happy to visit of an evening!)

the kitchens are a lot bigger than needed, there is a rumour that perhaps this was for either further expansion or for post nuclear explosion needs/decontamination centre/radiation treatment etc?
There was a big article in one of the local newspapers about the underground part of the hospital about a year or so ago, it was also mentioned in the article about the kitchens being much larger than needed for the size of hospital. They mentioned that the tunnels are closed off and access is restricted but have been used to store unused items.
Alas I'm not in the Vale at the moment.

The first hospital built in Scotland after the creation of the NHS was secretly designed as a military treatment centre to cope with casualties from a nuclear attack, it has been revealed.

When it was unveiled in 1955, at the height of the cold war, the Vale of Leven hospital in Alexandria, West Dunbartonshire, was presented to the public as a beacon of the new welfare state.

It has now emerged that the complex was built by the Ministry of Defence to deal with the aftermath of a nuclear attack.

The MoD expected survivors from a nuclear strike on Glasgow and the Clyde shipyards to flock to Loch Lomond for safety.

Dr William Thomson, medical superintendent at the hospital between 1963 and 1966, reveals its secret role in a BBC2 Scotland documentary, Pills, Potions & Patients - Scotland's NHS at 60, to be shown on Friday.

The article is about a BBC2 documentary on the hospital broadcast on 27th June 2008
 
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I would have thought that the Vale of Leven and Loch Lomond would cease to exist if the balloon went up. Very likely to have the bases targeted multiple times to ensure the not very accurate USSR missiles did their job.

The military burns unit was at Crosshouse Hospital, outside Kilmarnock, that had access to Prestwick Airport’s very long runway.

Hopelessly optimistic planning.
 

Alicatt

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A trip along Glen Douglas towards Faslane showed you the hollow hills between Loch Lomond and Gareloch were certainly a prime target.

We used to go canoeing along from Garlochhead to Rhu and back, the subs coming and going from Faslane have some bow wash coming off them, big swells and easy to ride out though.
 
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