River 'charts'

[PilotWolf]

River \'charts\'

Help!

Anyone one know a good publication(s) that I can use to plan a trip from Reading to the river Lee in Enfield?

W.

 

[Steve Clayton]

Re: River \'charts\'

Nicholson guides should do you:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nicholson-Guide-Waterways-Thames-Southern/dp/0007211155

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

Thats great - thanks!

W.

 

[miket]

Re: River \'charts\'

Possibly Imray C2 from Teddingto downward. Not sure where the Lee is?

 

[Gumpy]

Re: River \'charts\'

This could also be of help

http://www2.mihalis.net/canal/cgi-bin/index.cgi

Its a route and time planner for the canal system that also includes the Thames.

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

Thats a handy tool! Gives 4 days thou /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sorry I think it's the river Lea not Lee - in north London.

W.

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: River \'charts\'

I hesitated to reply because my first solution only includes the Thames and it is Chris Cove-Smith's Guide to the River Thames published by Imray.

Nicholson's (not a publication that endears it to me) London, Grand Union, Oxford and Lee covers the Grand Union bit if you're entering at Brentford, but if entering at Limehouse all you need it Chris' guide and free leaflet from BW and the Lee park authority, both of which are quite good:-

British Waterways and

Lee Valley

Gratuitously - you'll need a license for BW's waters and if entering from Limehouse you can purchase a Rivers only license which is (about) half the price of the canal and River jobby. As long as you "purchase" it - i.e let the lockkeeper know on entering then it is at a lesser rate as well. If you moor on the wall then there's no fee for the first night (ish).

Apologies if you already knew that.

 

[Gumpy]

Re: River \'charts\'

A lot depends on when you want to do it and tide times.
Check your preferances in the program it may be routing you via the GU and Brentford.
Me, If I need to get somewhere I do long days, I have the occasional use of a mooring in Caversham and from there Teddington is about 19hours.
If there is an early morning tide out of Teddington the next day I could be up in Enfield on the Lea about 8 hours later, so thats only 3 days. This is in a 60ft barge which bumbles along at the speed limit and not much faster. With a craft the size of Parglena it can be quite interesting getting into Limehouse when the full force of the ebb is ripping across the entrance. I have watched quite a few people make an unexpected dive for the upstream wall when the stern gets caught by the ebb and the bow is in slack water.

What Boat will you be doing it in and where on the Lea are you going?

Julian

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

Thanks for all the advice - I ve been asked to quote for a delivery of 40ft river cruiser and have never been further inland than Tower Bridge before so all a bit of a learning experience. (10's of 000 sea miles thou!)

The destination is near the Navigation Inn pub at Enfield.

Have had 'exciting' moments before entering locks off the Thames - tide+river bus wash+tug@ 15 odd knots+45' boat into lock with about 18" each side = sweaty palms!

W.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: River \'charts\'

Probably a silly/teach granny but have you checked the air draught? Lee has lower bridges than Thames.

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: River \'charts\'

Aha! Now the gruesome details.

If you're doing a delivery, I assume that it's soon-ish?

Well if it's that soon you can't 'cos at least one of the locks is closed until mid-March.

Otherwise on into the spring, the river tends to be full of water (i.e. strongish flows) and the approach to Limehouse can be tricky.

Some insurance companies don't like small boats going downstream at all as there is more hardware on that side (e.g. the London Eye) which can make you hang out into the channel.

You are required now to have and use a marine band VHF tranceiver for the Brentford to Limehouse transit - unless you can arrange a convoy.

Not many Narrowboats do it downstream as their first attempt.

If you go in at Brentford, you have lots of locks up to Bull's Bridge and lots of locks down to Limehouse. Not much fun if you're doing it single handed.

If you plan it well and know the challenges then it's not a problem, but if the weather is foul the Tideway can be positively dangerous for an underpowered vessel.


Get a copy (download) of both BW's lock opening hours and the London IWA's Thames cruising leaflets.

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

No but I did think about it when the canalplan came back warning of bridges and tunnels. I m guessing that as its a river cruiser it wont be that high.

W.

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

Yes I believe they want it done soonish... so it maybe a problem

Thames info and charts are fairly easily available but it was the river and canal connections I was struggling with!

Certainly wouldn't be doing it alone and have a delivery kit of VHF, lifejacket, etc as it's amazing what owners don't want to buy! (eg around £100 for DSC VHF is very little expense compaired with £500 for a delivery skipper +/- crew bearing in mind the benefits!).

W.

 

[Gumpy]

Re: River \'charts\'

If you call BW at limehouse 020 7308 9930 they have two very good booklets ( one upstream one downstream ) about the tideway transit and its free.
Designed for narrowboats but has all the detils you will need ie which arches to use etc etc.
Julian

 

[PilotWolf]

Re: River \'charts\'

Great - thanks -will get onto them in the morning.

W.

 

[Cliveshep]

Re: River \'charts\' - True Blue - VHF

Your comment about VHF (which we don't have working or licensed) prompted me to go look at PLA regs as we often wander down the tideway. Calm beating heart!

It seems that you have to be over 13.7m long (well, the boat does anyway) with the exception of narrow boats, and that a vessel over 13.7m long in a convoy does not require VHF so long as it is not the lead vessel of the convoy and that the lead vessel does so comply, or in any event over 20m in length which has to have VHF anyway.

See PLA website, "Maritime General Directions" which is a 93 page .pdf document. It wants a bit of finding.

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: River \'charts\' - True Blue - VHF

Yes, like the curate's egg you're right in parts, I'm not trying to be pernickety, but your's and my subsequent researches shows how beastly difficult it is to get at "the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth" when dealing with almost any official body. I looked on the PLA website at:-

The recreational users guide - The old rules were stated vaguely
This page which states the actual situation - any boat over 13.7m
except narrowboats but only when transiting between Teddington and Brentford.

These regulations were introduced last year with only a few days notice, which annoyed me but to add insult to injury, upon reflection the decided later not to make it mandatory until April 2007. Great. But nobody knew about it.

I keep ranting on about the PLA and VHF because many small craft like to make a ring trip either Brentford-Limehouse-Brentford or wider Oxford - Limehouse - Oxford. As they won't really have use for VHF for any other purpose it means that they can no longer do this wonderful trip. (OK you can do it in a convoy, but that means organising it - with possibility a liability issue on the lead boat).

Thanks for the extra details anyway

 

[Brayman]

Re: River \'charts\' - True Blue - VHF

Safety has to be paramount. I would not fancy doing a Limehouse - Brentford trip without a VHF. Listening out to what the state of the river is and what is going on makes you forearmed. Being able to communicate if concerned confused or in trouble are major reasons for carrying a VHF. We don't need to be obliged, it's just plain sensible.
And as for doing it in a NarowBoat, I wouldn't fancy being that close to the water between Tower Bridge and Westminster!

 

[Cliveshep]

Re: River \'charts\' - True Blue - VHF

Thanks for the Info True Blue - we are under the 13.7 by quite a chunk anyway. Last time we were down in Limehouse reach on of those socking great police boats came storming past about 1/2 cable off the port beam and chucked us around something chronic. TV leapt off top and clobbered 11 yr old son, wife had major panic attack and whole crew revolted (more than usual). As a result the rotten lot made me turn back and go upriver whilst they all went to bed. I got back to Kingston at 0130 in driving rain, wet and fed up but next morning they all buggered off to the shops for 4 hrs in Kingston.
Think I'll buy blow-up dolls for next crew!