Rip-off Britain again?

[Guest]

I subscribe to YM at £15 every six months by direct debit (I think that's the cheapest regular subscription, recently increased from £14.40). I enjoy the magazine and look forward to it each month.

I also receive the popular USA glossy magazine "SAILING" as a gift from family overseas. It is typically 120 pages, large format (about 50% bigger than YM), about the same proportion of adverts. Current advertised subscription price? $28 per year (about £17.50) for 12 issues delivered USA. Overseas delivery is an extra $18, total $46 (about £28.75, still less then YM).

A regular SAILING feature is the Bob Perry review of yacht designs. Feb issue includes his views on Bav 36, HR 40, Hylas 66 and X-332, a page each. There is a full boat test on a Dehler 39 and a used boat notebook on a Bennie First 456, plus usual gear tests, articles and editorials.

Are UK magazine production costs REALLY almost twice the USA? Sorry IPC, but I feel obliged to ask.

OK Kim, tell me I'm out of order and shouldn't knock the sponsors or promote the competition.

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

it might be more down to circulation numbers keeping their costs lower, supply and demand, bulk is cheaper.

But I could be wrong, and we all pay the price the company can get away with, I would love to see a magazine halve its cost and see if its circulation doubled

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[Guest]

I thought it might be circulation numbers too. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers, or other details to assess.

I do know that IPC alone publish eight (yes, 8) marine periodicals plus ybw.com. Six of these are for the leisure boating market, the rest the professional market (see http://www.ipc.co.uk/frameset.html). Could we have a problem of too much product diversification seeking too small a market, resulting in a high unit price for the consumer?

Also interesting to note IPC Media is an AOL Time-Warner Company. Again, haven't access to their financial statements, but wonder where all the publishing profits (if any) go.

I agree, the UK public suffers from an unreasonable tolerance of the mediocre, and that includes inflated prices we never question. I cheered when we stopped buying petrol because the price was too high! Consumer pressure can be a forceful tool, but rarely used in this country. We're even afraid to complain in restaurants, and when we do, we fumble it. And we wonder how so many French restaurants can give such value for money.

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[nicho]

It just falls in line with mosts price comparisons between UK and USA. Houses in America - 50% of the cost of similar properties in UK. Cars in America - roughly 50/60% of equivalent model in UK, and don't even think about the cost of petrol. The Yanks are going ballistic because it's around £1.10 per gallon over there!!

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[arran]

Higher costs in U.K due to:

1. The Prime Minister - no explanation needed
2. The Chancellor - self evident

Also the US is a massive market which means U.S marketing budgets must be huge compared to most U.K companies. So I'm thinking that because advertising revenue is going to increase with higher circulation this could both encourage and allow allow prices to fall?

But it's mainly due to 1 and 2 above.



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[30boat]

Culd you let me have their contact?I think I'd like to subscribe.
Thanks

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[Guest]

See my PM to you.

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[Castletine]

Too true on your last statement about the Brits not standing up for what they believe in.

As someone that operates in publishing/advertising market I believe I can answer the question on publishing costs, this has nothing to do with circulation or too small a market. It all has to do with overheads. The Uk has some of the highest wages, office overheads and print costs in Europe (bear in mind UK printers have to pay wages and overheads too). Add to this the inflated cost of transport by truck (no trains remember) that pay heavy fuel tax and the price keeps rising This all quickly adds up and determines the final price which the government does very well out of to the cost of the consumer and the publisher!

Ask yourself now, if you object to paying inflated and unrealistic prices for UK goods, do you think our european and american friends will purchase? Can we can be competitive in overseas markets with the overheads we suffer and the taxation?

Just to further amplify this - views from non-brits are not encouraging on their perception of our country. Kerry Packer the Australian billionaire recently cancelled the move of his European HQ to London and moved the whole shooting match to Paris on the grounds that London is smelly, massively overpriced and constipated.

Take this all a step further. You said that IPC is part of AOL Time-Warner (yet another truly great British asset sold off to overseas owners) which is true. With communication developing at the rate it is it will not be long before IPC doesn't have to even operate from this country (you'll still pay the same price as you're used to it) and functions like print can be achieved overseas. International companies have no country biais and are rightfully profit led - so the outcome of this will be less work in Britain - look at BRITISH Telecom who has a customer service operation in India to save costs - the paradox is in the title of the company, when the say 'tele' they really do mean 'from afar'!!!

Hmmm, rather than visit those French restaurants, I'm planning to live near them as are so many of my friends and colleagues are. We still feel truly British, but condsider ourselves refugees from a country we no longer recognise as home.

If any of you doubt my loyalty to my mother country I can tell you this. I drive a BRITISH car built when Britain was GREAT, not a rebadged BMW. I believe in the Britain of yesteryear, not the satellite state and slave it has become. We have no manufacturing, most of our national institutions have been sold out to foreign companies, even the buy back of Rover was a £10 insult, drive a Bentley and I'll show you a Volkswagen. One observation where I'm not positive whether this is the case or not, but from the http address I get the feeling that even this website is hosted in Poland.

When Mendelson lost his job over trying to swing English Citizenship for two Indians, he could have had mine for a fiver.

Obviously hit a raw nerve, but I'll finish now on this last note. The Australians have a saying ' You can f*** with me, but don't f*** with my dog' - I think for all Brits the dog's getting it!

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[Cornishman]

Please correct me if I am wrong here, but didn't AOL Time Warner make a bit of a loss last year?

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[kimhollamby]

UK perspective

Have just read through the whole of this thread. The following might help to put some issues into context:

1) Sailing magazine in the US only sells an average of 39,188 paid-for copies monthly according to its current figures; of those only 1,500 are outside of US. That is a similar to YM in terms of total numbers (sorry, haven't got latest ABC audits to hand but can post them if interested) and substantially less than PBO but both of our magazines are mostly sold outside of the US.

2) US magazines enjoy substantially lower distribution costs, within the US and when mailing from the US overseas, both in terms of postage and other mechanisms. A typical US magazine might be 80:20 subscriber to bookshelf sale or even completely based on subscription sale; a typical UK magazine is exactly the opposite.

3) Wastage is much higher when selling through newsagents; the only copies claimed as sold are those that actually pass through the till and the balance are pulped at the end of the month. Modern techniques have cut wastage dramatically but it is a simple rule that the more we want you to find our magazines on High Street UK (or ROW for that matter) the more we pay.

4) Our cover prices have to sit at a certain level in order to make boating titles attractive to newsagent retailers and distributors. Whether you buy off the bookshelves or via subscription, a substantial part of the cover price pays for distribution.

5) Many US magazines have advertising rates that are substantially higher than our titles. They return part of that income in the form of dramatically subsidised subscriptions. Sailing says that it does not offer cheap subscriptions for the majority of its readers but many other US titles do.

6) While we could print elsewhere to save money, all of our titles are produced and printed in the UK and I personally do not know of any plans to change that. I've never worked out how many UK employees and freelancers owe part or all of their livelihoods to our marine magazines but it is well into three figures. Not a virtue as such perhaps but worth stating.

7) The thought of one 'super' title covering all boating would potentially be as appealing to us as to those who have suggested it here. However, all of our experience points towards readers wanting separate titles that focus on their particular interest. The broad portfolio of marine titles that we have does lead to some economies, such as the running of these websites for example and the level of content on them which is substantially higher than would be the case for a single title operation. It also gives a stronger leverage on newsagent bookshelves when it comes to trying to guarantee that our magazines can be purchased in as many places as possible -- a challenge in itself given all of the ever-increasing number of publications covering other interests that try to secure their slot in a finite amount of retail space.

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[MADFISH]

I suscribe to YM in the same way. £15 per month. I have a great tactic however.

I cancel the subscription prior to the Southampton Boatshow. Then, whilst at the show I find a YBW subscription stand tucked away in a corner with the attendant looking bored. I then score the best free gift I can and take out again the subscription I had. Last year I aquired a flash Gerber knife worth £45 for a £16 6 month subscription! (Please don't hold this against me Kim!)

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[Metabarca]

It's interesting that much of the moaning I'm reading here about Britain I hear here in Italy too! Lots of manufacturing is now being moved abroad because wage costs here are too high. Taxes are certainly way higher than in the UK, whether corporate income or social security costs. Italians survive because they're nimble with their fingers and minds and, quite frankly, because there's a lot of tax fiddling going on (I wish I could find out how!).
I too was in publishing and can confirm what's been said. I started printing an Italian-based English-language monthly in Italy, moved it to the UK and then back to Italy. The British printer couldn't offer the same quality (partly because he couldn't get such good paper) nor match the price. It was cheaper for us to ship ex-Italy. Certainly, the more you sell via subs, the happier you be as a publisher. A distributor grabs 50-55% of the cover price for a consumer title. Plus subscriptions allow you to come up with all sorts of fancy statistics to sell your rag to potential advertisers.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>

 

[Gunfleet]

AOL

It was a write down of asset values. Not quite the same as a trading loss.

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[Guest]

Re: UK perspective

Living in the US, there's a ton of sailing mags to choose from. Personally, I don't buy the high circulation lower cost mags as their articles seem to be dictated by who runs an ad in them and most of the time, have too much of a focus on the brand new boat. There's a couple of lower circulation higher priced mags (about $7-$9 US per copy) I like and subscribe to, as they focus more on the person who has an older boat and the do-it-yourself attitude. Having a quick look at advertising rates between the high circ/low cost a full color ad ranges from $30,000 to $26,000 US dollars, whereas the low circ/higher cost averages $2,000 to $3,000 for the same.

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[Guest]

Re: UK perspective

Kim

From what you say , it appears:

- the subscription:newsstand ratio is very critical to the overall cost of a publication.

- the unit cost is very dependent on the sales volume, especially with a high proportion of newsagent distribution and the associated risk of pulping.

In the interests of profit and customer satisfaction, it would seem IPC should endeavor to increase their sales volume and reduce their unit costs (and price), taking the above into account.

Given YM and PBO have an 20:80 subscription:newsstand ratio and "Sailing" has 80:20 ratio, it seems to me there is a huge incentive for IPC to increase subscription sales and reduce newstand sales. A way to do this would be to increase cover price moderately and offer much more substantial reductions on subscriptions (or other benefits, like further reductions if you subscribe to both YM and PBO). This in fact is exactly what "Sailing" does with demostrable success:

- - - - - - - - Cover Price - - Subscription Price - - % Discount

- - - YM - - - - - £3.30 - - - - £30/12 = £2.50 - - - - - - 24%
- - "Sailing" - - - $3.99 - - - - $28/12 = $2.33 - - - - - - 42%

I appreciate the marketing of periodicals is a much more complex business than this, but it is interesting to contrast what IPC is doing vis-a-vis a similar publication elsewhere, and what the results are. This is not speculation; this is fact.

PS - Sorry for the hyphens in the table, but website doesn't seem to recognise multiple spaces or tab key.

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