Rigging tension on a trailer sailer - how on earth do I judge it?

[VicS]

And in fairness, Lakesailor's picture earlier on (post 8) shows his with a kicker. Guess I need to fit one soonish then. I didn't check for the attachment on the bottom of the boom, though there is somewhere at the mast foot I could shackle a block without it getting in the way of anything, IIRC. Back at the boat tomorrow - will check then...

My kicker and the boom down haul are shackled to the bolt ( stud) through the mast heel and step.

The attachment to the boom is a key hole plate pop rivetted ( I think) on

Kicker should be at 45° when the boom is in it's normal sailing position

 

[BERT T]

KICKER

You will get all the bits you need for the kicking strap from Kevin Butler Rigging, phone 01702 258678. If you speak to Kevin himself, I have always found him to be very helpful.





























0II

 

[William_H]

Rigging

The kicker need only be an integral tackle or possibly even just a wire as more of a preventer than a vang. The idea is to stop the boom rising when running and the main sheet is let right out.
I would strongly suggest you replace the rigging wire at first opportunity. The thinner wire seems more susceptible to sudden failure and seems to have a life of about 15 to 20 years. Failure of a wire will also destroy the mast. Good luck and do some more sailing before tackling the Bristol channel. olewill

 

[VicS]

I would strongly suggest you replace the rigging wire at first opportunity. The thinner wire seems more susceptible to sudden failure and seems to have a life of about 15 to 20 years.

 

[Lakesailor]

The Foxcub has a main traveller on the bridge deck (meaning it covers a wide angle of boom movement) so you can keep the boom down by using the mainsheet and traveller as long as you don't mind missing out on fine tuning.
Best get a kicker as soon as though. It's only a small main and I found it easier to pull down on the boom before pulling the kicker to get the best tension.
Or just sail upwind all the time!
Having a pivot on the mast base will make the whole job a lot easier. You may be able to just walk the mast up. Put a line to the forestay rigging screw and feed it under the bow roller (or a block on the stem head) so you can pull it in as you walk the mast up. When the mast is near vertical you can use the line to bring the rigging screw down to it's fixing hole.
Leaving the cap shrouds attached but a little slack controls the mast once it's up in the air (but check, check that you haven't twisted a rigging screw before pulling the mast up or you may kink a shroud or bend a screw).

 

[VicS]

Leaving the cap shrouds attached but a little slack controls the mast once it's up in the air (but check, check that you haven't twisted a rigging screw before pulling the mast up or you may kink a shroud or bend a screw).

I always stand the bottle screws up using bits of thin shock cord tied to them and the guard rails.

It also advisable to have someone else around even if not actually helping.
It's amazing the things the wires will find to get hooked around.

 

[Lakesailor]

Yes. The backstay will normally catch on the tiller or something. Very annoying.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Yes. The backstay will normally catch on the tiller or something. Very annoying.

Wise words from Vics about the bottle screws, and yes I've had the same problem with my backstay - I now bungee it to the mast when raising or lowering as it keeps it out of the way for the duration of the operation...

W.r.t the kicker/vang discussion - I don't think the OP hasn't mentioned what kind of reefing he has (??).... if the boat isn't converted to slab and is still using the roller then he might be in need of the boom claw first.... or watch the kicker disappear into the rolled up sail......

 

[Reptile Smile]

Ok, thanks - as ever - to all for their ongoing advice and support.

Closer inspection tonight indicated that I actually have a kicker but no downhaul. The downhaul is, actually, a hell of a lot easier to put in/replace than the kicker, though seems frustratingly fiddly at the mast foot trying to keep everything out of the way of everything else.

Temporarily, I think I can just use a straight bit of rope for the downhaul - I don't think on a sail that size it's going to need a lot of purchase to tension it, but I can sort that out as and when. I'm glad the kicker's there, though.

The reefing is roller reefing. I don't know what a 'boom claw' is but presume it's the 'horse-shoe with rollers' currently wrapped around my boom to which I'd assumed the main sheet attached, but all now - thinking about the roller reefing - makes perfect sense...

What's the advantage of slab reefing over roller reefing?

 

[Lakesailor]

Temporarily, I think I can just use a straight bit of rope for the downhaul - I don't think on a sail that size it's going to need a lot of purchase to tension it,

Quite right, Just use the main halyard to get your luff tension, as most people have to. Leave the short strop on or attach it with a carbine clip (I used to like to push the boom up when I'd stored the main to give more cockpit headroom.)

 

[VicS]

Ok, thanks - as ever - to all for their ongoing advice and support.

Closer inspection tonight indicated that I actually have a kicker but no downhaul. The downhaul is, actually, a hell of a lot easier to put in/replace than the kicker, though seems frustratingly fiddly at the mast foot trying to keep everything out of the way of everything else.

Temporarily, I think I can just use a straight bit of rope for the downhaul - I don't think on a sail that size it's going to need a lot of purchase to tension it, but I can sort that out as and when. I'm glad the kicker's there, though.

The reefing is roller reefing. I don't know what a 'boom claw' is but presume it's the 'horse-shoe with rollers' currently wrapped around my boom to which I'd assumed the main sheet attached, but all now - thinking about the roller reefing - makes perfect sense...

What's the advantage of slab reefing over roller reefing?

My boom down haul is a simple 2:1 purchase ( ie single block top and bottom) with a jammer on the bottom block.. That was part of the original rigging for the boat

My kicker is a 4:1 purchase ( ie double blocks top and bottom) with a jammer on the bottom block. There is a wire from the top block to the key and keyhole plate on the boom.

I have a shackle around the centre part of the mast step pivot bolt. The down haul and the kicker are shackled onto that.
Here is a photo that shows my down haul and the main part of the kicker.




If you use a kicker with roller reefing you need a claw ring around the boom to attach the kicker to so that the boom can roll. There has to also be a guy from the ring to a swivel on the boom end. Here is diagram that shows the arrangement



This my old clawring




Slab reefing will give you a better sail shape, mainly because it is possible to tension the new foot.

The roller reefing tends to end up with the end of the boom drooping into the cockpit.

Slab reefing enables you to fit a better kicker without the claw ring which is far from satifactory

 

[Reptile Smile]

Thanks Vic - v useful. Lakesailor's picture on the first page of this thread seems to show the mainsheet attached to the boom claw - or have I got this wrong?

 

[VicS]

Thanks Vic - v useful. Lakesailor's picture on the first page of this thread seems to show the mainsheet attached to the boom claw - or have I got this wrong?

Yes that's right the mainsheet is attached to a similar clawring because the traveller is at the forward end of the cockpit rather than the aft end.
He mentions it in post #25

It can give much better control of the sail shape than if attached to the boom end. But it can be a PITA having it there . You particularly need to watch out for fingers getting trapped on the track by the traveller.
You will still need a kicker to stop the boom lifting when sailing down-wind though

 

[William_H]

Mast base pivot

Hi Vic
I guess you know but i will mention it anyway that the mast base pivot you have is very susceptible to damage when the mast is lowered by sideways swing of the mast.
The type is very common here and inevitably gets the lugs snapped off. Hopefully yours are stronger than locally made ones. A Stainless Steel base and lugs would be far better.
The dimension between the lugs is just the worst possible being narrow enough that any mast sideways swing has huge leverage to snap the lugs but small enough leverage to require a lot of movement at the lugs beyond normal free play. Mine by contrast has effectively only one lug so any swing is small at the lug and only bends the Al. Anyway just be careful when raising/lowering. olewill

 

[Fantasie 19]

Hi Vic
I guess you know but i will mention it anyway that the mast base pivot you have is very susceptible to damage when the mast is lowered by sideways swing of the mast.

Anyway just be careful when raising/lowering. olewill

Amen.... one of the reasons Lakey's crane rather than an A frame is a better approach to lowering the mast... (..still too scarey for me though - prefer the A frame which I can do on my own now...)...

To protect against swing I'm thinking of putting together a couple of bridles for the next lift....

 

[VicS]

Hi Vic
I guess you know but i will mention it anyway that the mast base pivot you have is very susceptible to damage when the mast is lowered by sideways swing of the mast.
The type is very common here and inevitably gets the lugs snapped off. Hopefully yours are stronger than locally made ones. A Stainless Steel base and lugs would be far better.
The dimension between the lugs is just the worst possible being narrow enough that any mast sideways swing has huge leverage to snap the lugs but small enough leverage to require a lot of movement at the lugs beyond normal free play. Mine by contrast has effectively only one lug so any swing is small at the lug and only bends the Al. Anyway just be careful when raising/lowering. olewill

Yes I am very careful. I don't raise or lower the mast afloat or if its windy.

I have an A frame but I do realise that it still does not prevent the mast swinging sideways.
I use the mainsheet between the A frame apex and the stem head and I find I can stand in a position where I can keep the mast straight as it goes up.

Recently i have been letting the yard step the mast with a their mobile derrick. Even that's not entirely satisfactory as it is exactly the same height as the mast so one has to watch out for all the gubbins mounted up there.
It was a free service but they will be charging £10 from now on .. still cheap compared with any other yards.

 

[Lakesailor]

Bring your boat to Windermere

 

[Reptile Smile]

Slab reefing will give you a better sail shape, mainly because it is possible to tension the new foot.

The roller reefing tends to end up with the end of the boom drooping into the cockpit.

Slab reefing enables you to fit a better kicker without the claw ring which is far from satifactory

And thus it was. I had a cracking day and sail, but three turns of roller reefing (in truth, far more reefing than we needed but I was trying to reassure the slightly nervous guy I was sailing with) and I had to hoist the whole sail further up the mast to get the end of the boom to clear the guard wires.

I presume converting to slab reefing is no more than getting a friendly sailmaker to put a couple of rows of eyelets in?

Any idea how much I can expect to pay for this?

Cheers

 

[VicS]

And thus it was. I had a cracking day and sail, but three turns of roller reefing (in truth, far more reefing than we needed but I was trying to reassure the slightly nervous guy I was sailing with) and I had to hoist the whole sail further up the mast to get the end of the boom to clear the guard wires.

I presume converting to slab reefing is no more than getting a friendly sailmaker to put a couple of rows of eyelets in?

Any idea how much I can expect to pay for this?

Cheers

I had the reefing points put in years ago. So long ago that there is no point in looking to see if I have any record of the cost

Then I made and fitted the hooks but bought a Barton slab reefing kit ( see pics below) and a couple of cleats and (much later) some eyes to run the reefing lines through on the boom.

BTW make sure if you do this that you fit the slab reefing kit on the same side as the main halyard ... (traditionally the starboard side) .. don't ask!

 

[Reptile Smile]

Right, it seems clear now that I've utterly misunderstood what slab reefing is. I thought it was just a row of grommets with ties through them. That's what a friend has on his (old) boat, and another friend had on his Cornish Shrimper.

Hmm Plan B, then...