Rigging advice please

gasdave

gasdave

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Firstly may I say how impressed I am at the wealth of knowledge out there! I am new to yacht ownership and very much at the learning stage, so appreciate all useful advice.
1. The standing rigging on my newly acquired Sadler 26 is 10 years old and I have read that this is a reasonable safe lifespan. Consequently I am considering replacing it this winter - what do you think?
2. The backstay is a split one with a block and tackle adjuster to either side of the transom. Should I keep this arrangement or could I live without a backstay adjuster on this boat? I will not be racing.
3. Should screws be replaced with the rigging?
Thanks in anticipation!
 
Hi,
It doesn't necessarily need to be replaced just because it's 10 years old. Did you have a survey? If so what did that say? Though even if the surveyor's report said to replace it that could have been just because it's 10 years old not because it needs replacing. So I guess get someone who knows their stuff and can give you impartial advice to have a look at it if that's possible is an option, you'd have to accept that it was just their opinion though...
Not sure how helpful that is but I'm sure there'll be plenty more advice forthcoming...
Good luck with it all...:)
 
Ten years is an oft-quoted insurance company stipulation, tho' my insurers have never stipulated it. If your rigging stands up to a careful inspection without showing any faults, and if no wicked insurance man is insisting it's changed, I'd keep it. You'll find there's plenty else to spend money on.

Back-stay tensioner. Keep it. Pull it down hard when going to windward in a good breeze. Slacken it when off the wind. You don't have to be racing, you'll just find it helps the boat go a bit better.

Screws - assuming you mean rigging screws, yes replace at same time as standing rigging. But see above.

FWIW I've found riggers to be amongst the more honest tradesmen in the marine industry - ask a professional to take a look and they'll PROBABLY give you an unbiased report, albeit with a few caveats to cover themselves in case it all falls down tomorrow.
 
10 years is the oft quoted time for replacing standing rigging. The mast is unlikely to come crashing down after 9 years and 367 days, but your insurance company will likely have a view that will affect your thinking on the replacement.

The main thing I would say though is to keep the backstay adjustment. Racers don't have these to make life difficult, they have them to make life easy. If you encounter a powerful gust you can help retain control by de-power the rig quickly by yanking on the backstay. It helps flatten the main and tighten the forestay, both of which are good when you're a little overpressed.
 
Rigging replacement

I would say you can keep the rigging for a few more seasons. 15 years might be a better number. But if you are concerned replace the side stays cap and intermediate first as being more critical.
The stainless steel seems to have this ability to let go without warning and seems to be based on age. So IMHO it is not worth trying to get an expert opinion. Your own close inspection will be just as good.
The rigging screws should last much longer especially if they are bronze. Do make sure they are all free and are well greased. ( I have seen 4 different rigging wire failures among friends but no rigging screws. each wire failure was plus 25 yo.) Yes keep the backstay adjustment good luck with the new boat olewill
 
my newly acquired Sadler 26
Click to expand...
Wanted one ever since they were first introduced. Still got a brochure and price list from 1986!

Agree with what the others say about the rigging. Trouble with stainless steel rigging is that you cannot test it and when it fails it is likely to do so in one of the end fittings where you cannot see it.

Originally they did not have any form of backstay adjustment apart from the bottle screw and were fixed to a "chain plate" on the transom to one side of the rudder.
 
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As William_H suggests, a good option might be to replace the rigging yourself a bit at a time - this can be done without taking the mast down, and doing it like this you could replace the whole lot over three years.

As everyone else has said, keep the backstay tensioner.

- W
 
The stainless steel seems to have this ability to let go without warning and seems to be based on age

Trouble with stainless steel rigging is that you cannot test it and when it fails it is likely to do so in one of the end fittings where you cannot see it

Thanks so far guys.

It is the two points above which I suppose concern me. Checking rigging oneself is all very well - you may find an area of concern. However if something can go "without warning" does this mean that an area of stressed steel might not be visible and therefore missed on a check? Or simply that it is merely impractical to keep continuously checking? Either way this would imply that precautionary replacement is advised. The debate is then at what age and/or after how much use.

Your opinions are reassuring though. Perhaps my solution ought to be to ask a rigger to go over it all first. As to the question of previous use/stress, I have no idea since the boat is new to me and the previous owner only ran her for a couple of years.
 
gasdave said:


Your opinions are reassuring though. Perhaps my solution ought to be to ask a rigger to go over it all first. As to the question of previous use/stress, I have no idea since the boat is new to me and the previous owner only ran her for a couple of years.
Click to expand...


By all means get a rigger to go over it but he is unlikely to uncover anything that you could not see for yourself, with the exception that he may be able to comment on the overall set up, reefing etc.

The split backstay arrangement is a good one and may well have been put there to replace the U bolt and wheel adjuster that was a weakness in the original design. This shows a previous owner has given some attention to the boat and has to be a good sign. Good Luck.
 
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The split backstay arrangement is a good one and may well have been put there to replace the U bolt and wheel adjuster that was a weakness in the original design. This shows a previous owner has given some attention to the boat and has to be a good sign
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.

The original design did not even have the wheel adjuster ... not in the pictures in the brochure anyway ... but it did have a chainplate extending several inches down the transom, not just a U bolt

Agree the split backstay is an improvement on the original but the tensioning provision may mean that the boat has been raced seriously.
 
gasdave said:
The stainless steel seems to have this ability to let go without warning and seems to be based on age

Trouble with stainless steel rigging is that you cannot test it and when it fails it is likely to do so in one of the end fittings where you cannot see it
Click to expand...

These are a couple of the myths about stainless steels in general. There isn't much truth in either of them. Just remember that every LNG plant in the world is built of 300 series stainless steels, containing pipework and machinery operating at high power and pressure. Stainless steel would not be used if it was unpredictable.

Statement 1 is an observation regarding fatigue. Cracks grow until the remaining material has insufficient strength for the load, when it fails in overload. It follows that a crack has been present for quite some time: it's just that the owner never checked or -

Statement 2. The cracks are hidden inside the swaged fitting. My experience is that rigging wires develop cracks over some time and strands begin to fail a long time before the whole cable goes. It is always possible to see if some strands are broken, if you bother to look.

This photo shows a forestay that failed. The boat was kept on an exposed mooring and its owner thought that slackening the rig off every time he left it would save the mast from becoming bent. The forestay failed twice, losing the rig over the side each time.
crosssection.jpg

By visual inspection you can see that strands around the top half are rusted, showing the strands to have failed some time ago. It would have been immediately apparent that these were broken if the owner had bothered to look.

The final fracture is the one at six o'clock, almost every other one has some beach marks, showing that they were cracked before they whole thing failed. Inspection of these would have been more difficult but not impossible.

The answer is obvious. Inspect regularly and thoroughly. A visual inspection is almost always sufficient, although the NDT people will be delighted to tell you different.
 
Gasdave,

I was in the same position as you at the end of season 2008. My first boat and 10 year old rigging. I changed the whole lot out for new. The last owners did not charter her, but she had been set up for charter and had been coded in the past. The boat needed TLC and so the conclusion I came to was that the history of the boat tended towards higher use in uncontrolled hands. So I changed the rigging.

I would say that insofar as I could tell from a visual inspection it all looked OK. However, now there is a high chance that all will be OK for many years.

Some caution. Keep all the old fittings if like to keep spares. If you are not there when the marina takes the mast down insist that they remove the fittings and keep them safe. My old bottle screws were all stolen from the cockpit. Once you get the quote ask them to return the old rigging undamaged. Keeping a shroud, forestay and backstay as a spare might be a good idea if you are inclined that way. My rigger scrapped all mine, it was in the price he said.

I don't blame the rigger or the marina as I could have addressed these requirements. Its my own stupid fault that serviceable equipment got wasted.
 
When I was racing I used to replace the standing rigging every 10 years whether it needed it or not, I would keep the old stuff because deep down I knew there was nothing wrong with it and when you are writing cheques for £1500 you think there must be some value left. But you soon realize that you would need to be in real penury before you would ever put it back on the boat. I did use a bit once for bracing the legs on a yard trolley, but it all went to the skip eventually. If you really need to change it, dump it, you will never fit it again, or else why take it off.
My opinion would be that you will expect to get 15 years min. from rigging you know has not been abused, but have a good look as Vyv says no matter how young it is. It is more likely to be damaged when mast is being stepped or unstepped if care is not taken and the wires are not in nice even tension. Run your fingers along every wire and into the terminals if there is a fault you will need a sticking plaster.
 
A job on my own to do list at present. I'm dealing with rigging age unknown. For what its worth my approach would be to lower the mast and -

1. inspect all wire for broken strands or unraveling of the rope layup - one broken strand is an indication to replace. Layup deformation needs to be investigated for cause. Wire itself is strong on a true pull (breaking strain designed to be 4 times the max. percieved load for cruising ideally. I believe racing boats go as low as low times?). Apparently the most likely point of sudden failure for wire rigging is at the swag terminals.

2. Inspect all swagged fittings for signs of corrision or cracks (use iodine or similiar & magnifying glass to highlight any hairline cracks). Inspect also for straightness and alignment. Any unture pulls on wire rope at the fittings should be resolved.

3. Inspect all turnbuckels and toggles as in 2. Inspect mast connection points also.

4. While I'm at it, I'll remove chain plates and inspect thru bolts/nuts/backing plates, and rebed chainplates.

The likely hood is that I'll replace all rigging & that should do it for another 20+ years! Interesting article here from past surveys -
http://www.dixielandmarine.com/yachts/DLrigprob.html
 
A very experienced rigger in Perigny

gasdave said:
Firstly may I say how impressed I am at the wealth of knowledge out there! I am new to yacht ownership and very much at the learning stage, so appreciate all useful advice.
1. The standing rigging on my newly acquired Sadler 26 is 10 years old and I have read that this is a reasonable safe lifespan. Consequently I am considering replacing it this winter - what do you think?
2. The backstay is a split one with a block and tackle adjuster to either side of the transom. Should I keep this arrangement or could I live without a backstay adjuster on this boat? I will not be racing.
3. Should screws be replaced with the rigging?
Thanks in anticipation!
Click to expand...

Told me as good a guideline as is possible was for a masthead rig "once round the world or 16 years, whichever is less" - a fractional rig will, of course, be rather less.
The most common points of failure are at the swaging junction or the actual turnbuckles - plated bronze seem to be more highly regarded than stainless.
On the two shrouds I've had part, both have gone at the upper T-bar swage. Neither parted completely and were an inner, after 18 years and a secondary, after 12 years.
 
gasdave said:
Firstly may I say how impressed I am at the wealth of knowledge out there! I am new to yacht ownership and very much at the learning stage, so appreciate all useful advice.
1. The standing rigging on my newly acquired Sadler 26 is 10 years old and I have read that this is a reasonable safe lifespan. Consequently I am considering replacing it this winter - what do you think?
2. The backstay is a split one with a block and tackle adjuster to either side of the transom. Should I keep this arrangement or could I live without a backstay adjuster on this boat? I will not be racing.
3. Should screws be replaced with the rigging?
Thanks in anticipation!
Click to expand...

Hi Dave

The only way to really inspect your mast is to examine it on the ground. if you have your boat out of the water, it is worth doing, particular at your early ownership stage. it is not too difficult to do but you need to plan it thorough beforehand so that you control the movement. This also allows you to examine and wash halyards if required.
As a rule of thumb, you should have reasonable tension all round on the rig. Rigs can fail from shock loading on poor set ups.
As others have said, pay close attention to the terminals of the shrouds. Also look at split pins etc which can go missing or tear a sail if not tucked away properly.
 
Spent some of my formative years making stainless steel wire in Sheffield. No way anyone can give you a lifespan in years for wire rigging - it depends on how the boat has been used, how the rig was designed ( articulation etc) not to mention the metallurgical quality of the stainless steel.

The 10 years often quoted presumably is a statistical thing from the insurance companies ie the rate of rig failure in average use starts to climb sharply after that,. I say "presume" cos I don't know.

But if the boat is new to you, you dont know how it has been used. You might not know for sure how old the rig is. And whilst it may well be good for another 10 years, when it does go it will take mast, sails, some deck fittings and maybe your neck with it. Maybe 10k of damage when rig replacement would be less than 1k. So my view has been to change the rig on every boat I have bought second hand.

As a DIY project it is quite easy and not that expensive. As for the deck fittings, bottle screws etc, I have examined those with a magnifying glass and replaced any where I thought there might be cracks.
 
SAWDOC said:
As a rule of thumb, you should have reasonable tension all round on the rig. Rigs can fail from shock loading on poor set ups.
Click to expand...

To a rigging virgin like me, how does one assess what "reasonable" tension is? I know there are various gauges out there which claim to measure tension but are these really necessary for your average cruiser?

By the way, the link to Dixieland marine by cimo is helpful - thanks!
 
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