Rigging a storm jib

[Deleted member 36384]

Surely you need some sort of jib up in order to heave to?

Likely not in high winds with a reefed main well eased. The wind tries to blow the bow off, the eased main being inefficient tries to drive forward, the helm tries to counter the bow by turning upwind, result boat heaves too. I guess not all hulls, rigs will do this, as usual in sailing, it depends on so many facts about the boat. Otherwise I would agree that a jib is needed.

 

[TernVI]

Setting a storm jib in the conditions that need it is no fun, especially if you have to attach the emergency forestay. This is swinging about like crazy with quite a bit of weight in it and you are perched on a wildly bucking foredeck trying to hang on and line up the fitting and get the pin through, depending on the system you have. And then hank on the sail and hoist it. Not easy. And is it necessary? Other have made the point about trying to sail to windward in a smallish boat in strong winds. I have found on my boat the best thing is to heave-to under a deeply reefed main and no headsail. This will depend on the boat but its worth a try in a blow as it means less time on the foredeck. By the time you are thinking of a storm jib you will have the main deep reefed so just wind in the genoa and heave-to under main only.

That's all very well in situations where your strategy is to keep your head down until the storm goes away.
I've never really been in that situation, but have several times wanted to make progress to a safe haven or keep going towards my destination.

A lot of yachts which are unlikely to undertake deep-ocean voyages might be better with a heavy weather roller sail. A 90% blade jib kind of thing that will be OK for making good progress in F4 and still efficient in F6. Beyond that it will roll to something that will balance a deep-reefed main.

 

[capnsensible]

Likely not in high winds with a reefed main well eased. The wind tries to blow the bow off, the eased main being inefficient tries to drive forward, the helm tries to counter the bow by turning upwind, result boat heaves too. I guess not all hulls, rigs will do this, as usual in sailing, it depends on so many facts about the boat. Otherwise I would agree that a jib is needed.

I'm not getting why an eased main on its own in heavy airs isn't gonna shake the rig to bits? Must be hard in, surely. ?

 

[dunedin]

I like the idea of not having to use a trysail and just use a heavily reefed inmast main but want to hear if this is wise.

Skip Novak has written on a few occasions that a very deep reefed mainsail (4th reef in his boats case) is preferable to a trysail. And he probably knows his stuff - quite a few round the world trips through the roaring forties, and operating 2 yachts that charter around and south of Cape Horn for more than a decade. Probably seen a few proper storms.

On this point, I am amazed at the number of boats that don’t even have a third reef on the mainsail, yet have a storm jib. Even seen boats with an expensive (and it proved totally unusable) trysail kit, yet only 2 reefs in the main - leaving a huge gap in the rig options for winds between 25 knots and 45 knots. After a test setting of the trysail, the sailmaker was called and asked to add a third reef instead.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'd be interested in what your set-up on your sealord is. A few years back I had a removable inner forestay installed on my oceanlord. There's a separate track forward but the sheets need to be routed through that and then back through the main cars to the (thankfully twin) turning blocks. The main genoa cars are fairly big so I can feed two through with the "active" one being held tight and not chafing against the "lazy" one below it. I've also got a hanked on #3 I can use with the removable inner forestay meaning I can if necessary get rid of the furling genoa long before a storm jib is needed.

Having said that, in the past few years I've avoided going out in unpleasant weather so all the practice has been entirely unrepresentative.

On the subject of trysails, a standard offering from Kemps is extra reinforcement for the top part of the main with a "4th reef". I'm aware of many of the trysail vs 4th reef arguments but tbh the likelihood of me ever wishing I'd gone to the hassle of fitting a track for a trysail is vanishingly small.



I'm not an expert but I'd say doing that negates the "taking the boom out of the equation" argument in favour of trysails (although there are still others)

We're just in the middle of re-rigging our Sealord so I've got to see how the sheeting angles etc work out with the new removable inner forestay we've had rigged. I'll try and take some pictures and resurrect the thread in due course if I may?

Regarding rigging staysail to the boom, I've seen that method but I prefer the technique where you lower the boom and lash it down and have two sheets to the quarters off the staysail and sheet accordingly. Hope that makes sense?

Having chatted to our sailmaker, we have opted not to have a trysail but instead have a deep third reef of a simile square footage to what a trysail would be.

 

[TernVI]

I'm not getting why an eased main on its own in heavy airs isn't gonna shake the rig to bits? Must be hard in, surely. ?

Some fully battened mains will behave quite nicely, battens in a S shape, like the back of the sail is hove to against the front half. It works on some dinghies anyway! Probably can't get enough kicker on a yacht to make it work.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Likely not in high winds with a reefed main well eased. The wind tries to blow the bow off, the eased main being inefficient tries to drive forward, the helm tries to counter the bow by turning upwind, result boat heaves too. I guess not all hulls, rigs will do this, as usual in sailing, it depends on so many facts about the boat. Otherwise I would agree that a jib is needed.

Interestingly our old Westerly would never hove too in normal stable manner with foresail up, but was fine with mainsail alone. Never got to the bottom of it but our present chubby little tub seems to hove to with or without though we have only tried it up to F6. We had some ripping times playing with sails and bought a trisail to prevent further damage, but eventual cut down an old heavy weather sail which we can set loose footed and reef to suit.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I'm not getting why an eased main on its own in heavy airs isn't gonna shake the rig to bits? Must be hard in, surely. ?

Becuase it's not flapping, its eased off.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Becuase it's not flapping, its eased off.

I would think of that as sailing rather than hove to. If the main is eased off and not flapping it must be driving the boat forward and probably quite fast in the sort of wind envisaged.

 

[capnsensible]

Becuase it's not flapping, its eased off.

Then surely it's driving, so not hove to? I'm not getting this! ?

 

[mjcoon]

Then surely it's driving, so not hove to? I'm not getting this! ?

I think that was the point of heaving-to with two sails. Both driving, so not flapping, but in opposite directions in order to make minimum progress, called "fore-reaching". Not sure if I've ever done it, though...

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Then surely it's driving, so not hove to? I'm not getting this! ?

Thats okay, I don’t need you to get it.

 

[Boathook]

Agreed, provided those deep reefs are roped up and ready to go.

I've seen lots of boats (most?) in marinas with three reefs, but only two ready to go, the idea being that you undo reef one and reuse it for reef 3. This is going to involve a trip to the mast and, if you haven't done it because you knew some dirty weather was coming so you've skipped reef one, that's going to be at the point you really don't want to be going out of the cockpit.

I've seen quite a few boats with 3 reefs and only 2 set up. I can't see the reason aprt from less ropes. I've got 3 reefs and they are all set up ready to go. Like most sailing in the channel, I've managed to avoid really bad weather and have only used the first 2 reefs. I have tried the 3rd reef (not in anger) and it makes the main look like the size of a tri-sail.

 

[RupertW]

I've seen quite a few boats with 3 reefs and only 2 set up. I can't see the reason aprt from less ropes. I've got 3 reefs and they are all set up ready to go. Like most sailing in the channel, I've managed to avoid really bad weather and have only used the first 2 reefs. I have tried the 3rd reef (not in anger) and it makes the main look like the size of a tri-sail.

For the last year we have sailed with just the 2nd and 3rd rigged - just waiting for that quiet week when we might move back to 1st and 2nd. In practice we find that once we are into the first reef we quickly need the second so it gets least use. The third gets used so often for anchoring or two that I’ve rigged a down haul so I can go from second to third and back with out leaving the cockpit.

 

[Frank Holden]

We're just in the middle of re-rigging our Sealord so I've got to see how the sheeting angles etc work out with the new removable inner forestay we've had rigged. I'll try and take some pictures and resurrect the thread in due course if I may?

Regarding rigging staysail to the boom, I've seen that method but I prefer the technique where you lower the boom and lash it down and have two sheets to the quarters off the staysail and sheet accordingly. Hope that makes sense?

Having chatted to our sailmaker, we have opted not to have a trysail but instead have a deep third reef of a simile square footage to what a trysail would be.

My Sealord has a double spreader rig... a result of losing the original mast..
My inner forestay is from just aft of the windlass to the upper spreaders.... removeable but spends 99% of the time in place. New mast accepts running backstays just below the upper spreaders.
Load at lower end is transfered to the chain locker bulkhead.
In answer to the query after my last post... gap between inner and outer forestay is greater than appears in that photo and increases as you go higher.
Storm jibs not often used in conjunction with headsail but seems to work. I think in the previous photo we had been under the big storm jib overnight and had popped the jib at daylight.

 

[john_morris_uk]

My Sealord has a double spreader rig... a result of losing the original mast..
My inner forestay is from just aft of the windlass to the upper spreaders.... removeable but spends 99% of the time in place. New mast accepts running backstays just below the upper spreaders.
Load at lower end is transfered to the chain locker bulkhead.
In answer to the query after my last post... gap between inner and outer forestay is greater than appears in that photo and increases as you go higher.
Storm jibs not often used in conjunction with headsail but seems to work. I think in the previous photo we had been under the big storm jib overnight and had popped the jib at daylight.View attachment 99729

We’re still in our single spreader rig. May I ask how you lost your mast? I’ve had all the chai plates off recently and crack tested them but I’m not happy with the lowers. I’m probably going to beef them up in line with Camomile’s suggestion. Blue water preparation

Our inner forestay is in exactly the same place as yours at deck level and also tied to the chainlocker bulkhead. I think I over engineered the fitting I had made. It’s a bit heavy duty....

like Camomile, I’ve found a crack in our stem head fitting so that’s coming off and being replaced...

 

[dom]

My Sealord has a double spreader rig... a result of losing the original mast..
My inner forestay is from just aft of the windlass to the upper spreaders.... removeable but spends 99% of the time in place. New mast accepts running backstays just below the upper spreaders.
Load at lower end is transfered to the chain locker bulkhead.
In answer to the query after my last post... gap between inner and outer forestay is greater than appears in that photo and increases as you go higher.
Storm jibs not often used in conjunction with headsail but seems to work. I think in the previous photo we had been under the big storm jib overnight and had popped the jib at daylight.View attachment 99729

Frank, that photo is intriguing; you seem moored perilously close to the shore Scandi-style and what on earth is that weed you're fishing for?

 

[capnsensible]

I think that was the point of heaving-to with two sails. Both driving, so not flapping, but in opposite directions in order to make minimum progress, called "fore-reaching". Not sure if I've ever done it, though...

Yeah I've hove to a stack of times, but I'm not getting how to heave to with just a mainsail up and eased without flapping. Personally, I would call that 'sailing with the main eased'. ?

 

[capnsensible]

Thats okay, I don’t need you to get it.

Mutual. ?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

For those interested in how to heave to under main, there is information on Google if you search "heave too with mainsail only". In case Google works by your search profile i.e. different from my search profile, here are a couple of links that explain it better and also the debates. Note that both boom sheeted in and boom sheeted out are discussed in the links below.

Heaving To
Heaving to on just the mainsail
Heaving To Under Main Only - Cruisers & Sailing Forums