Rig For Offshore Downwind Sailing?

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dewent

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I currently have a 110% furling genoa without a pole.

Thinking about upgrading the rig for 2013 for some longer distance offshore down wind sailing.

One or two head sails? One or two poles?

Suggestions would be welcome.
 
If you have a furling forestay with twin slots, then a twistle rig is a good option.

It is fairly cumbersome to set up, but once up it is very easy to control and reef, plus reduces rolling, increases lateral stability, and gives good visibility under the bottom edge of the sails.
 
twin sails

If you have twin luff grooves, use twin sails and twin poles. Use down hauls to keep the poles from moving upward and to keep the leech tight and so avoid fill and spill and therefore avoid rolling. As the wind increases and you need to reef, ease the poles forward and roll away both sails and then re-tighten downhaul. If you are headed by the wind, remove one pole and jibe one sail across to the other and then treat both sails as one headsail. If you have a single luff groove, you can attach a block to the head of the existing sail and then using a spare halyard haul up the second sail. Use twin poles as described above. Your biggest enemy will be chafe on the sheets so consider using some protection where the sheets go through the jaws of the poles such as leather tube or even rubber tube.
 
Calvin said:
If you have twin luff grooves, use twin sails and twin poles. Use down hauls to keep the poles from moving upward and to keep the leech tight and so avoid fill and spill and therefore avoid rolling. As the wind increases and you need to reef, ease the poles forward and roll away both sails and then re-tighten downhaul. If you are headed by the wind, remove one pole and jibe one sail across to the other and then treat both sails as one headsail. If you have a single luff groove, you can attach a block to the head of the existing sail and then using a spare halyard haul up the second sail. Use twin poles as described above. Your biggest enemy will be chafe on the sheets so consider using some protection where the sheets go through the jaws of the poles such as leather tube or even rubber tube.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hijack slightly, but if I could just ask a q...

So for the poles, you reckon just a downhaul would do? Our boat has a very basic rig, however came with a whisker pole. There don't appear to be any pole lines like the ones I've used on other boats with spinnakers. If I were to rig up a downhaul, would that be enough to control the pole?
Cheers ears.
 
Hi Cardo, I'm looking at a similar rig. I have two identical 100% high cut yankee jibs for Jess and a twin groove foil. Only one pole at present, but working on another. If circumstances work out so First Mate and I can make it to the Caribean a twin headsail rig as proposed would be great for the downwind bit. It would be much easier for a small crew with just downhauls. Any one have practical experience of such a rig? Pro's and con's? Any advice appreciated.
 
Cardo said:
Sorry to hijack slightly, but if I could just ask a q...

So for the poles, you reckon just a downhaul would do? Our boat has a very basic rig, however came with a whisker pole. There don't appear to be any pole lines like the ones I've used on other boats with spinnakers. If I were to rig up a downhaul, would that be enough to control the pole?
Cheers ears.
Click to expand...

Much depends on the length of the pole relative to the size of the jib. A short pole can be useful to just hold the jib out enough either windward or leeward to make the sail steady and useful. The jib sheet effectively locates the height of the pole.
A longer pole (spinaker pole) however can be used to push the clew way out toward having the jib flat and at right angles to the wind. This gets more out of the wind but will be unsteady. The jib sheet can not hold the jib down so easily being eased right out. So you will/may need to guy the pole down. You may also find that a topping lift will assist in management of the, of necessity, much heavier pole.
And all the variations between these 2 extremes. Try it and see. good luck olewill
 
Calvin said:
Your biggest enemy will be chafe on the sheets so consider using some protection where the sheets go through the jaws of the poles such as leather tube or even rubber tube.
Click to expand...

Hi Calvin

would it pay on really long runs to have the poles attached to a small loop of dynema through each cringle instead of onto the sheets?
This could then easily be replaced if chaffe was evident.

S.
 
dewent said:
So the consensus seems to be two poles?
Click to expand...

An alternative arrangement is to use the boom as a pole.

Stow the mainsail and run one headsail sheet though a block on the end of the boom, which is then swung out, almost touching the aft lower shroud and set up on a preventer against the mainsheet. The headsail sheet should be taken to a snatch block on the rail near the shrouds and thence to the cockpit winch.
 
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A recent article in YM about a couple doing the ARC and back from New York suggested that using the 2nd groove in the furlex to fly another sail produced a very uncomfortable motion. They couple said that flying the 2nd sail loose form the head, leaving a gap between the two sails, produced a much more comfortable motion.
 
Twin headsails on one furler, No1 and No2 worked well.

You only need one pole and a block on the end of the boom to take the other sheet.
 
We used a twistle rig - twin headsails poled out with a double hinge in the middle with a downhaul and the spinnaker pole uphaul holding the hinge fitting. The benefits are: unlike a spinnaker which is up or down the twins are infinitely adjustable in size. If you only have one luff groove you can sew the sails to one luff rope. The joint allows the sails to free fly i.e. the poles are not attached to the mast. This cuts down rolling, compared to poles fixed to the mast, which is caused by sails pushing the mast and the mast pushing the sails.

I posted some pictures of the joint in a previous thread about twistle rigs, if you can't find them I'll post them again. In the thread I also explained how the hinges work.
 
Neil_Y said:
Twin headsails on one furler, No1 and No2 worked well.

You only need one pole and a block on the end of the boom to take the other sheet.
Click to expand...

Neil
You say the No1 & No 2 worked well , can you say what % they were pls.

I have a 140% genoa and a 110% working jib and I haven't yet flown them together. Some have said they will be too different in size to work well as a twin headsail downwind setup but I wonder. I know the only way to be sure is to try but I'd welcome input on youe sizes.

Cheers
Dave
 
Can't remember exact sizes but No 2 was quite a bit smaller than No1. Probably 120% and 80%.

It worked really well no problems with rolling hardly any chafe issues, could all be tightened up so no movement or noise, but best thing with the odd sized sails is we could run at quite an angle with the smaller sail forewards on the pole and the larger aft off the boom.

here are some picture to give you an idea they were taken mid atlantic when we came across another yacht after 12 days at sea, first picture is us with full sails set catching them up and then we rolled up a bit to slow down.

c6c0b61a.jpg

8759db67.jpg
 
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