Reversing woes.

[solent clown]

I can see why you want to persevere. Working sailing boats used to manoeuvre like this all the time, though, granted, not from Marina finger berths. Running lines all over the place, and using anchors was normal, as was towing by dinghy, or using oars (sweeps). While these things raise eyebrows in these days of reliable motors and bow-thrusters, they still work. You may need to work out different solutions for different combinations of tide and wind. Or perhaps I'm over thinking it and after more practise you'll be in and out like a ferret up a drainpipe. Good luck anyway.

I can reverse out OK, it is just hectic, and I do not feel overly in control when it is windy. I know it's not the end of the world, but it is a wind up start to a sail. Wheras doing a reverse at the end of the sail if I suss it out will be a less stressful proposition thaan shouting as we leave rather than arrive back, lol

 

[TLouth7]

I understand the desire to leave the reversing to the end of a sail, but the advantage to reversing out of the berth is that you are going from a tight space into a larger area, rather than trying to reverse into an exact position.

When the tide is sweeping you out of the berth it might be possible to drop back in neutral until you reach the centre of the 'pond', then put the helm hard over and a burst of forward throttle to spin the boat 90 degrees to starboard, and exit forwards. With the tide flowing into the berth this would still be possible, but you would have to travel in a straight line in reverse until your stern is as close as possible to the boats opposite, then spin and exit on whichever side of the shallow patch is easiest. These approaches would probably not work well with an onshore wind as you would struggle to get the bow facing out, and would risk ending up pinned onto the shallows.

One option to enter the berth in reverse would be: enter the pond forwards on the opposite side to your berth, turn 180 degrees to starboard, using the turn to slow the boat, finish the turn facing out of the marina, stationary, with the end of the finger adjacent to the widest point of your port side. Your crew hops off here, holding both bow and stern lines (or better a single line running from bow to stern cleats, outside everything), and pulls the stern into the berth. Ideally the helm hops onto the finger and takes control of the stern warp, or uses the engine to help the yacht into the berth.

 

[solent clown]

I will get Karen to set up her go pro on dry land to watch my various attempts, might be worth a you've been framed moment :encouragement:

 

[Poignard]

Plenty of fenders and a sense of humour helps :encouragement:

 

[Daydream believer]

Can you come in with the mud bank to port then turn to port so that you can line up with the berth better . That actually gives you turning space. Then gun it in reverse.Sometimes being too timid can be a mistake.
Forget messing about with ropes & anchors etc you will just get in a mess.
Good idea to drop crew off at the hammer head first. They can go ashore & either help fend off or take the p..ss depending on how you treated them on the day out

 

[solent clown]

Can you come in with the mud bank to port then turn to port so that you can line up with the berth better . That actually gives you turning space. Then gun it in reverse.Sometimes being too timid can be a mistake.
Forget messing about with ropes & anchors etc you will just get in a mess.
Good idea to drop crew off at the hammer head first. They can go ashore & either help fend off or take the p..ss depending on how you treated them on the day out

I am going to print every response on here that has a practical value, try them all out with Karen filming, and give you all scores. Should be a fun day and some fun footage.

 

[solent clown]

Note to self buy more fenders, many more fenders

 

[Wansworth]

Going astern.......try an Albin Vega!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

This may or may not help. I have a Moody 31, a fin keel design that is not good at going astern. The prop-wash is such that it overpowers the rudder when going astern, throwing the stern to starboard regardless of what you do with the rudder; you might JUST manage to keep straight if there's no wind, and if the wind is in a helpful direction (from the starboard side) you might even get to turn to port! However, I have found that an effective technique is to use short blasts of full astern with the tiller straight, and then steer while in neutral. The rudder is still much less effective than when going forward, but at least it isn't fighting the prop-wash. It is still problematic if there's a strong breeze from the port side, but at least you stand a chance. I need to use large movements of the tiller when travelling in reverse, as well.

 

[solent clown]

This may or may not help. I have a Moody 31, a fin keel design that is not good at going astern. The prop-wash is such that it overpowers the rudder when going astern, throwing the stern to starboard regardless of what you do with the rudder; you might JUST manage to keep straight if there's no wind, and if the wind is in a helpful direction (from the starboard side) you might even get to turn to port! However, I have found that an effective technique is to use short blasts of full astern with the tiller straight, and then steer while in neutral. The rudder is still much less effective than when going forward, but at least it isn't fighting the prop-wash. It is still problematic if there's a strong breeze from the port side, but at least you stand a chance. I need to use large movements of the tiller when travelling in reverse, as well.

that sounds a lot like the problem I am having. I will try it.

 

[oldharry]

Few boats are 'good' at going astern, and having owned many smaller boats I dont find my Trident all that unmanageable. Yes prop walk pushes her sideways to start with, but a bit of judicious juggling with the throttle can get her going more or less the right direction. The problem is you need about aknot and half sternway before you can use the rudder to control it.

There are very very few boats that can be reveresed out of berth into a breeze blowing the boat back on to the pontoon. The difficulty is you simply cannot get enough speed up to get things under control before the wind pushes her back on.

However, if you rig a running line from the bow, and take it back to the stern cleat on the pontoon, then put the rudder hard over into the berth, then put the engine into forward gear, it will push the stern right out against any amount of wind, pivoting on the bow (which needs to be weell fendered). A quick switch from fwd into reverse should then get the boat moving fast enough to gain control before it is blown back on to the pontoon. Its perfectly possible this way to get the boat almost at right angles to the berth, to give time and room to get her going backwards. The crew needs to be a bit nippy recovering the line as you back away, but once the boat is moving backwards the spring line will be well slacked off. Even if propwalk is pushing her back in to the berth, if you push out far enough, you will have room to get things under control in reverse.

Better still if the tide is running along the berth, as you can spring the boat out in to it this whichever way you need to come off. Just attach the spring to the downtide end of the boat, and the uptide end of the berth.

I've done it many times, even managing it single handed, though that requires space and planning, and a nimble skipper! I've seen a Cal Mac ferry doing the same manoever getting off a leeshore berth in a near gale with nothing to haul off from to windward.

 

[No Regrets]

Reversing a 'dog boat' that won't apparently reverse is usually done by reversing at speed, and then using the forward gear with the rudder in the corrective position for a couple of seconds, but while the boat still has rearward momentum.

The boats stern should be kicked into a better position, enabling you to engage reverse and move backwards another few yards in the desired direction.

You need to be patient as progress is slow, and don't be frightened to pile on the forward revs aggressively without creating forward movement, because the prop washes through the rudder and the boat changes angle pretty quickly without actually moving forwards, while in reverse the direction change is less abrupt

You thus move in a zig-zag, but always rearwards.

Does this make sense!? :encouragement:

 

[Daydream believer]

Take the boat out in the river & practice reversing to a mooring buoy from all angles of wind & tide for a while. That will give you practice at accuracy & make you more aware of how the boat reacts to all options & power delivery options. Cheaper than belting the pontoon or hitting the boat next to you

 

[Concerto]

One trick I use sometimes is to select reverse at half throttle whilst still moored for about half a minute. This get water flowing over the rudder. Then cast off and reverse. It usually pays to use full reverse for a second or two and then back to an idle speed. You should have better control now at a slower speed.

 

[solent clown]

Reversing a 'dog boat' that won't apparently reverse is usually done by reversing at speed, and then using the forward gear with the rudder in the corrective position for a couple of seconds, but while the boat still has rearward momentum.

The boats stern should be kicked into a better position, enabling you to engage reverse and move backwards another few yards in the desired direction.

You need to be patient as progress is slow, and don't be frightened to pile on the forward revs aggressively without creating forward movement, because the prop washes through the rudder and the boat changes angle pretty quickly without actually moving forwards, while in reverse the direction change is less abrupt

You thus move in a zig-zag, but always rearwards.

Does this make sense!? :encouragement:

yes makes sense, I will try it

 

[solent clown]

One trick I use sometimes is to select reverse at half throttle whilst still moored for about half a minute. This get water flowing over the rudder. Then cast off and reverse. It usually pays to use full reverse for a second or two and then back to an idle speed. You should have better control now at a slower speed.

interesting.

 

[johnalison]

Reversing a 'dog boat' that won't apparently reverse is usually done by reversing at speed, and then using the forward gear with the rudder in the corrective position for a couple of seconds, but while the boat still has rearward momentum.

The boats stern should be kicked into a better position, enabling you to engage reverse and move backwards another few yards in the desired direction.

You need to be patient as progress is slow, and don't be frightened to pile on the forward revs aggressively without creating forward movement, because the prop washes through the rudder and the boat changes angle pretty quickly without actually moving forwards, while in reverse the direction change is less abrupt

You thus move in a zig-zag, but always rearwards.

Does this make sense!? :encouragement:

Even with a well-mannered boat like mine, there are times when your technique is necessary, so it needs to be part of one's armoury. I remember watching a traditional boat, an old wooden fishing-boat of about 40 foot, taking people out for trips from a tight berth in Kuhlungsborn. He went out and back about four times a day, and never got it wrong. He needed to turn the boat through 180 degrees as he returned to the berth within the marina, without enough room. He turned as far as possible, then executed a series of forwards and backwards moves, while leaving the helm full across, the key to the process. About four forward kicks usually did the job.

 

[{151760}]

Few boats are 'good' at going astern, and having owned many smaller boats I dont find my Trident all that unmanageable. Yes prop walk pushes her sideways to start with, but a bit of judicious juggling with the throttle can get her going more or less the right direction. The problem is you need about aknot and half sternway before you can use the rudder to control it.

There are very very few boats that can be reveresed out of berth into a breeze blowing the boat back on to the pontoon. The difficulty is you simply cannot get enough speed up to get things under control before the wind pushes her back on.

However, if you rig a running line from the bow, and take it back to the stern cleat on the pontoon, then put the rudder hard over into the berth, then put the engine into forward gear, it will push the stern right out against any amount of wind, pivoting on the bow (which needs to be weell fendered). A quick switch from fwd into reverse should then get the boat moving fast enough to gain control before it is blown back on to the pontoon. Its perfectly possible this way to get the boat almost at right angles to the berth, to give time and room to get her going backwards. The crew needs to be a bit nippy recovering the line as you back away, but once the boat is moving backwards the spring line will be well slacked off. Even if propwalk is pushing her back in to the berth, if you push out far enough, you will have room to get things under control in reverse.

Better still if the tide is running along the berth, as you can spring the boat out in to it this whichever way you need to come off. Just attach the spring to the downtide end of the boat, and the uptide end of the berth.

I've done it many times, even managing it single handed, though that requires space and planning, and a nimble skipper! I've seen a Cal Mac ferry doing the same manoever getting off a leeshore berth in a near gale with nothing to haul off from to windward.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see how springing off will work in a finger berth with another boat alongside. I've only ever sprung off an alongside pontoon.

 

[solent clown]

Take the boat out in the river & practice reversing to a mooring buoy from all angles of wind & tide for a while. That will give you practice at accuracy & make you more aware of how the boat reacts to all options & power delivery options. Cheaper than belting the pontoon or hitting the boat next to you

We have been practising loads, I think i will try out some of those harder throttle tips on here and be less shy and precise - as that is obviously not working! I need to crack this one way or the other. Messing about practising makes me feel a bit of an arse sometimes, as there are frequently people at the opposite marina looking over, but better to look an arse in the river, than be the arse who takes out someone's yacht or a pontoon. The eureka moment will come and i will kick myself

 

[Poignard]

One trick I use sometimes is to select reverse at half throttle whilst still moored for about half a minute. This get water flowing over the rudder. Then cast off and reverse. It usually pays to use full reverse for a second or two and then back to an idle speed. You should have better control now at a slower speed.

In Duncan Wells' book 'Short-handed Sailing' he describes a technique where you remain secured to the pontoon with a slip rope led from a pontoon cleat near the bow and led back to the cockpit. Put the engine astern and let go when you're ready. It's a good technique if you have an engine that is slow to pick up. There's a video of it on YouTube.