Retro-fit chain locker ?

B

Boo2

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Messages
8,606
Visit site
Has anyone here ever retro-fitted a chain locker and bow roller setup to a boat ? I've just been to view one which didn't have either of these and since I want to use her for cruising I think they're a requirement. I just wondered how hard it is to retro-fit a chain locker in the bows, and to add a deck hatch and a bow roller ? Price estimate for having it done professionally would be welcome too.


Thanks,

Boo2
 
Strange boat not to have chain storage of some sort and a bow roller!

Chain lockers right at the front can be a problem with fine bows - getting enough space and potential problems of excess weight. Leaving aside the bow roller bit, the essentials of a chain locker are enough height to provide a fall for the chain, a watertight bulkhead to separate from the accommodation, a drain overboard (so must be above the waterline), and space to fit an access hatch through the deck. Usually if the boat was not designed to have one structural reinforcement will be needed.

So, difficult to even hazard a guess without looking at the specific boat. Could be easy to impossible!
 
A bulk head or even a partial bulk head partitioning of the bow with a chain pipe to allow the chain to fall into it are the basic requirements, along with a suitable bow roller /stem head fitting. Access will be required so a hatch in a full bulkhead is necessary.

An over board drain is nice but not vital .. many boats don't have one.

If it's a small boat the weight of the chain right in the bows may be an issue if it has not been designed for it. I have seen boats where the chain locker is low down and well back from the bow.

Do tell us what the boat is then we may have some idea what we are up against.
 
VicS said:
If it's a small boat the weight of the chain right in the bows may be an issue if it has not been designed for it. I have seen boats where the chain locker is low down and well back from the bow.

Do tell us what the boat is then we may have some idea what we are up against.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm going to try posting some pix so you will be able to see what the issues are :
 
Last edited:
As you see, there realy is nothing at all in the way of a bow roller, and precious little in the way of steelwork at all up front.

There is no existing hatch in the deck and I don't think the forward bulkhead has enough space in front of it for an adequate supply of chain, let alone a couple of anchors as well.

My idea would be as follows :

  1. Replace the stem fitting with one having a bow roller
  2. Add anchor mounts to the deck
  3. Mount a windlass (or just a turnaround) to the deck to pass the chain down through the deck
  4. Have a chainpipe to take the chain down just in front of the hanging locker on the starboard side of the boat
  5. Make a chain locker situated at the central infill of the forepeak bunk, fed by the chainpipe just to starboard of the center

Does this sound like a plan ? Any idea how much it would cost ? I'd want any woodwork done professionally 'cos that's single good point about this boat, steelwork ditto 'cos it's beyond me.

Boo2
 
Last edited:
Boo2 said:
My idea would be as follows :

  1. Replace the stem fitting with one having a bow roller
  2. Add anchor mounts to the deck
  3. Mount a windlass (or just a turnaround) to the deck to pass the chain down through the deck
  4. Have a chainpipe to take the chain down just in front of the hanging locker on the starboard side of the boat
  5. Make a chain locker situated at the central infill of the forepeak bunk, fed by the chainpipe just to starboard of the center

Does this sound like a plan ?
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me; I was going to suggest something similar although with the chainpipe mounted further forward and the chain locker under the bunk itself. Your idea is probably better on several counts though if you don't mind losing the foot space under the infill.

I'm not quite sure how your proposed chain routing around the windlass will work; are you suggesting one of the ones incorporating the top of the chainpipe, or the kind where the chain runs round it and then down a separate entry? I first imagined the latter, with the windlass on the centreline and the entry over to starboard above the locker. In that case you'd only have 90 degrees of chain on the gypsy; 180 is more normal but I don't know if it's required.

If you're planning an electric windlass, is the motor going to end up in prime head-cracking position in the passage to the forepeak?

With the chain locker where you propose, you will be pulling weight down and into the centre, which is nice.

Pete
 
Feasible, but a big job. The complete stem head fitting would need remaking to include bow roler(s). The track down the foredeck would have to go to make room for a deck mounted windlass and cleats or mooring bollard. Deck should be strong enough to take the loads. You will also need to build a structural bulkhead to separate the chain locker from the cabin or run the chain down a hose or chute into the locker below. It will have to drain into the bilge.

Don't know the boat, but the foredeck suggests it is racy and maybe not the best starting point for a cruising boat. There is a lot of labour involved in doing these sorts of mods so could be very costly if paying yard prices. At a guess the stemhead fitting from scratch would be well over £1k.
 
Deck Mounted Chain Box and Larger Fairleads

Boo2 why change the current set up with regards to the stem head fitting?

If you fit a stem head fitting then you may have to shorten the forestay as it does not look as if you have a lot of height between the furling drum and deck. So rather than change all that keep what you have got and work round the existing system.

There is no reason why you can not anchor from either the starboard or port bow and the anchor rode can always be centralized from the other bow by rigging a strop and hauling the chain centraly to the side.

The first problem is the fair leads. I would change these for oversized closed fair leads, the big eyelet types that you can fit the chain through.

I would stow the anchor on chokes mounted on the deck with appropriate eyelets to lash it down securely. The chain I would stow in a chain box mounted anywhere on your coach roof or foredeck. Wide and shallow is best. I have seen these chain boxes on catamarans. Some have a central inner box, like an island and the chain wraps round the island. You will be surprised at how much chain can be fitted into a small box.

When preparing to anchor just feed the chain through the closed fairlead and attach to your anchor. If day sailing you could even leave it rigged. A technique I am now using when approaching an anchorage is to lower the anchor into the water, just below hull depth. The anchor remains very stable and does not sweep around your bow. A fellow sailor recommended that this to me as I have quite a high bow.

I have used a chain hook with a long rope to haul in chain from a sheet winch, so I wouldn’t necessarily go for an anchor windlass, if you are capable of hauling in the anchor by hand. An electrical capstan type winch can be made to work well without the hawse pipe. Where the chain leaves the gypsy it passes round a post and turns aft and the crew just have to keep tension on the chain as they flake it into the anchor box.

So food for thought which may give you a lower cost solution.
 
Chain locker: yes, stemhead fitting: no.

Boo2 said:
Has anyone here ever retro-fitted a chain locker and bow roller setup to a boat ? I've just been to view one which didn't have either of these and since I want to use her for cruising I think they're a requirement. I just wondered how hard it is to retro-fit a chain locker in the bows, and to add a deck hatch and a bow roller ? Price estimate for having it done professionally would be welcome too.


Thanks,

Boo2
Click to expand...

We have done part of what you describe, on our boat. The original set up had a (hand) windlass about 3 feet back from the bow, with a chain pipe feeding down into a broad but shallow chain locker under the forward part of the foc'sle berth. Someone had to be below decks to encourage the chain to stow.

We moved the windlass about 8 feet astern, and up onto the coach roof, above a bulkhead, and converted the hanging locker beneath this point into a chain locker. The new chain locker is lined with a butyl rubber sack, with a a drain hose and stopcock at the lowest point, and lining inside that to resist abrasion by the chain (polypropylene mat, best known as greengrocers false grass!).

No joinery involved, but the GRP reinforcing webs I put under the windlass took me several hours.

Disadvantages: 1) Lost the hanging locker space. 2) While you are working the windlass you are well back from the bows so cannot see the anchor coming up - {so we have good chain markers}. 3) I was concerned that chain dragging across 8 feet of deck (treadmaster) would mark it, 12 years so far and it's OK..

Advantages: 1) Mainly all that weight of chain is further back - in practice we carry more chain as a result. 2) And the chain locker is vertical, so the chain self-stows beautifully. 3) The windlass probably gets less spray etc underway and 4) There is lots of deck space to man the windlass, fit snubbers, etc.

Bear in mind that your chain locker will get seawater in it, and inevitable mud/weed too, one day.

No knowledge of changing stemhead fittings, I'm afraid.
 
While a bow roller may not be essential it looks like there might be room for one. Baltic made boats like ours are sold at home without anchor rollers, though most do have large anchor lockers, for the UK market Finngulf fit a fairly compact single stainless steel anchor roller but it is offset to starboard though parallel to the centreline, it looks as if you may have similar space beside the forestay fitting. If it will help I can take and post a picture of the narrow but apparently sturdy stainless steel fitting on our foredeck. You may have to build up a level platform with teak or similar, but if your anchor is not too heavy it could be stowed there, leaving you just the hawse pipe and chain stowage to sort out.
 
Probably foor setting up an inner forestay for a storm jib. Have a look to see if there is an extra stay made off temporarily at the mast.

What boat is it?
 
Boo2 said:
Yerss... economical and minimilistic at the same time. I like it...

... but I also like this boat as well, so it's a quandary
Click to expand...

With all due respect, Boo, this is about the seventy third boat you've lost your heart to here. Could I, in nothing more than a spirit of helpfulness, suggest that you postpone your search for a boat until you have enough experience to know what you're looking for?
 
Ubergeekian said:
With all due respect, Boo, this is about the seventy third boat you've lost your heart to here. Could I, in nothing more than a spirit of helpfulness, suggest that you postpone your search for a boat until you have enough experience to know what you're looking for?
Click to expand...

I don't think that is really very helpful Ubergeekian :

I am trying to find a boat that I can afford from a very limited pocket and because of this I am forced to consider boats which require work. So I need to ask questions about how much that work will cost so I can make meaningful comparisons between the boats.

I don't expect to ever have the experience to know what all possible combinations of what the work will cost because I will not buy all the boats I am considering. (IYSWIM).

I haven't really lost my heart to any specific boat, and I do already know what I am looking for : a 32 to 34 foot boat in a 197x IOR style suitable for single-handed cruising. My plans are initially to do a circuit around the UK, and eventually (I hope) to cruise from Amsterdam to Thailand via Suez.

I will gain the experience by buying a boat and sailing it, after I compete the Day Skipper course I am booked on.

After that (between the UK and Thailand) I hope to do a Coastal Skipper course and then (maybe) a YM Offshore.

So that's the plan, I'm sorry if my posts here are a little repetitive but all the boats and questions are still in active consideration, I'n not going to jump into buying the wrong boat 'cos I can't afford the mistake.

I hope the tone of this reply doesn't sound tetchy, I'm really very grateful for all the advice I've received on these forums which have saved me loads of time and saved many manufacturers and service people a pile of wasted time on the phone.

Boo2
 
As you are probably discovering, finding what you want is next to impossible if you have a limited budget. The style of boat you are looking at is not a particularly good starting point for what you want to do. These boats were designed to be thrashed round the race courses with big strong crews. They were built at a time when builders were learning how to use new materials and shapes. They are now 30 or more years old, so even if well cared for will need work. Remember they would cost probably £120k+ to build now, so everything you need to buy or have made is related to that cost, not to £20-30k initial purchase price.

I don't have an easy alternative - if you don't have the budget you might have to go down a size to get the features you want, or look at boats with more modest sailing performance. I went through a similar process 10 years ago, with boats of similar vintage (which were then of course 10 years younger) and gave up because all the boats I could afford to buy needed at least 30% of the purchase price to bring them up to standard, even though I am capable of doing just about everything myself. Fortunately I was able to find a way of buying a new boat to meet my needs and have never regretted it.
 
I would not be quite as pessimistic as Tranona, there are well maintained and equipped older boats about. Some owners can't help themselves from keeping things right, right up to when they sell the boat. Because boats are mainly sold through brokers on a very broad market the price never acurately reflects that condition. My advice would be to look for a really well maintained and equipped boat, particularly one that has been owned and used for a good number of years, the owner's attitude is the best guide to boat condition, you may pay a premium of 10% but that is less than the price of a set of standing rigging and one sail. With your objectives I am puzzled why you are concentrating on old IOR designs which were designed for big crews and weight on the rail, particularly if they need major modification. Around the same time there were lots of production boats such as Westerlies, Moodys, Sigmas, Sadlers which are more suitable for short handed handling. anchoring etc. Also rare marques like Contests, Contentions, Comforts etc just to mention the Cs. For 32 to 34 feet you need about £25k plus berthing costs, if you get something for less you will spend at least the difference on upgrades, if your budget is any lower you can start the process with a smaller boat and if you eventually go off your big trip you can decide then whether you need to trade up. A sound well equipped 28 footer with sound reliable gear, rig and sails will feel a lot more secure than a 32 footer with gear limited by your budget.
I tend to think that your ambitions might be best met by a two stage plan, buy a good boat and learn to sail and maintain it, then with the knowlege gained, look for your long range cruiser. Good boats don't depreciate in cash terms though you lose most of the money you spend on them after purchase.
 
Boo2 said:
I don't think that is really very helpful Ubergeekian :
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if it came across badly. It's just that you seem to have rather set views on what you want based on next-to-no sailing experience: since gaining such experience will inevitable change your expectations I think you might be advised to hold off just a little bit on the major commitment.

I really do hope that you find the boat and complete the voyage of your dreams.

incidentally, are you related to the "Boo" who asked many similar questions on uk.rec.sailing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top