Retrieving the anchor alone in a gale.

[GrahamM376]

I can't just "filck a switch" in the cockpit because if I don't flake the chain in the locker it gets stuck in the hawserpipe

I also have that problem. Using a wireless remote, I go below and flake the chain as it comes in until the 20m mark is in. Then go up top and haul the rest as the last section will drop in OK.

 

[Storyline]

Yes, this one, cheap and cheerful and works every time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIRELESS-WINCH-REMOTE-CONTROL-SWITCH-Fits-Warn-recovery-12v-atv-utv-sxs-4x4-cj-5-/331227718090?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1eb5e1ca

Thanks, that looks good value - presumably you can install it whilst also keeping the wired controller we use .....

 

[KellysEye]

What a nightmare. If strong winds are forecast put out a second anchor in a V and make sure it is set. Then always take the engine off the dinghy and lift the dinghy on deck and tie it down. Had you done those two things it's highly likely that what happened would not have happened. Our second anchor was a Fortress we also carried a monster Fortress as a storm anchor, obviously you need to carry enough chain and warp for the one or two extra anchors. The other thing we had was a riding sail this cuts the swinging from 90 degrees to about 35 degrees and thus significantly cuts down snatch loads which are the problem. Use clips to hold it on the backstay then tie the luff each side to a stanchion. Ours was on the topping lift of our mizzen mast tied to the mizzen boom. That's what we always did and I can assure you it works.

As said a remote controlled anchor winch is handy in those conditions but we didn't have one, we had the plan above.

 

[BrianH]

Thanks, that looks good value - presumably you can install it whilst also keeping the wired controller we use .....

Yes, the receiver parallels the wired socket I have on deck at the winch base - I can use either. One minor disadvantage is that the receiver is always on and although
current draw is minute I disconnect the positive lead to it when I lay up. I did forget the first year but the winch battery in the forepeak was not noticeably depleted.
.
Edit:
The remote also, unlike more costly units, is not activated when a button is pushed but needs manually switching on and off or the internal battery will run down. But at such prices I can live with that.

For a similar price, some vendors supply two remotes I think, you need to do some research.

 

[TQA]

I had a similar situation recently and like the OP have to be at the sharp end to deal with my chain pile. I have thought long and hard about how I could improve my setup. An anchor remote would be an improvement but would help mostly in dropping the anchor.

The chain needs to self stow I have tried several mods but my locker is both shallow and small as I have a two anchor two locker setup. Short of a major rebuild and moving both the chain locker and windlass back I can see nothing there.

An autopilot remote might help in less severe conditions but I was frequently on full throttle and spinning from full lock to full lock just to maintain position. In the conditions I had the AP is too slow.

So I have decided to make it easier to drop my primary anchor and chain. Currently I have it attached using a conventional shackle to a further 200 ft rope rode which I have never deployed. The shackle often jams in the hawse hole.

I need to think up a way to attach a float on a line in a hurry while detaching the chain from whatever bitter end I decide to use. The best I can come up with involves using several turns of a light but strong lashing which I could easily cut and a clip on the end of the buoy line.

I would then go and deploy my secondary anchor which is the same size.

BTW my anchor had been down and holding for several days and I had backed down hard on it when I set it which I always do. Conditions were fairly extreme with gusts of 50kts+. I was not the only dragger which made things interesting.

 

[Storyline]

.....
The other thing we had was a riding sail this cuts the swinging from 90 degrees to about 35 degrees and thus significantly cuts down snatch loads which are the problem .....

Have always fancied the idea of a riding sail, the problem is that we are sloop rigged so although we could hank it onto the back stay I have no idea what to do with the clew to hold it out. Has anyone any ideas how a sloop could use one ?

(Sorry to Aquarella if this is a bit off topic but it may be relevant to you as well)

 

[Storyline]

..... One minor disadvantage is that the receiver is always on and although
current draw is minute I disconnect the positive lead to it when I lay up.
.....

Just wondering if there is any reason why the receiver part cannot be connected to the solenoid supply which we only switch on just before using the windlass ?

 

[Storyline]

The problem seems to be that you need to be on the foredeck to sort out the chain so I wonder if there is any mileage in rigging up a remote control system for the autopilot. The autohelm we use can be controlled by the plotter in a certain mode so there may be a way however the fact that I have never heard about anyone doing it suggests it may be impractical.

 

[doug748]

Have always fancied the idea of a riding sail, the problem is that we are sloop rigged so although we could hank it onto the back stay I have no idea what to do with the clew to hold it out. Has anyone any ideas how a sloop could use one ?

(Sorry to Aquarella if this is a bit off topic but it may be relevant to you as well)

Piota now known as Krusty used to swear by this set up:


http://www.ybw.com/forums/album.php?albumid=212

 

[BrianH]

Just wondering if there is any reason why the receiver part cannot be connected to the solenoid supply which we only switch on just before using the windlass ?

Sounds like a solution. My system has no isolating switch - it is always enabled.

The problem seems to be that you need to be on the foredeck to sort out the chain so I wonder if there is any mileage in rigging up a remote control system for the autopilot. The autohelm we use can be controlled by the plotter in a certain mode so there may be a way however the fact that I have never heard about anyone doing it suggests it may be impractical.

TQA describes above the potential problems of using an AP while anchor recovering and I completely agree with him - my Raymarine wheel pilot could never react fast enough and I wouldn't try. In gale-force winds I find my bow with plenty of windage blows off and the chain, bar-taut, leads off to one side ... it needs a deft hand on both throttle and wheel to keep heading up and taking the strain off in the correct direction at the correct speed to not override the anchor. I can only repeat, the winch remote allows me to do that and it has changed my cruising as in the northern Adriatic we are prone to sudden bora gales that are not always predictable.

 

[nimbusgb]

Just wondering if there is any reason why the receiver part cannot be connected to the solenoid supply which we only switch on just before using the windlass ?

Or put a switch in the receiver power wire ( having read that you have no isolator! )

The problem seems to be that you need to be on the foredeck to sort out the chain so I wonder if there is any mileage in rigging up a remote control system for the autopilot. The autohelm we use can be controlled by the plotter in a certain mode so there may be a way however the fact that I have never heard about anyone doing it suggests it may be impractical.

I have a raymarine inboard autopilot and their wireless remote control. The problem is not controlling the helm so much as not having throttle control. Motoring up on a chain in 30 knots plus is not just 'give it wellie and steer'.

The solution really is to sort out the chain stowage. Either get the chain to fall into a greater depth or some other arrangement.

In the same situation I have run forward, pushed over the chain pile, run back etc. Doubt anyone could have done much different apart from tying a fender to 20m of line, tying to the chain and letting it all go to the bottom.

Sounds like you made the best of a bad situation, must have been really nice when the hook bit again and gave you a break!

 

[onesea]

I was not there I do not know... but another thought for the OP.

Had the anchor really dragged? It is amazing how far a boat feels to move if there has been a shift of wind direction, if the 20m of chain was laid in a pile and no real significant weight had been put on it, plus had the anchor been laid out in a different direction. Or the boat when the gust hit had been sailing towards one side it can feel like you are dragging anchor when the boat has not been brought up yet.

If this was the case the you would be trying to drive over the anchor chain, with he engine which would mean that keeping the heading would be impossible in those conditions.

One way I have of trying to judge this is hit the MOB button on my GPS where I think the anchor is on the bottom. (Ok I have hand held GPS which makes it easier) then monitor the distance. Or put the trail on the GPS on a very long time, if the anchor is dragging slowly there is a distinct zig zag shape or a scary straight line....


Maybe easing of on the throttle earlier and seeing if the chain took the weight might of been a consideration? VERY EASILY said, not so easy to do particularly if you have doubts about the quality /weight of the gear you have down...

Whilst your motoring and taking the weight of the chain you are reducing the force on the anchor chain which helps to maintaining your heading which will make the boat yaw about more...

As I said I do not know I was not there and they are tough calls to make at the time, just thoughts for you....

 

[Dockhead]

There's no good answer to this question. Single handed at anchor in a gale I would just wait for the gale to subside, if that were an option. There's simply no good way to do it.

If I were forced to do it, I think I would put the boat in gear and set the autopilot to maintain a steady heading. Which it might be incapable of doing in a gale -- N.B. If that sort of works, then I would go forward and get the anchor up as fast as I could.

If that doesn't sort of work, then I think you're kind of stuffed. If you nevertheless must leave the anchorage, then tie a fender and length of rope to the bitter end and jettison the chain.

I would never call a pan-pan for something like this. Just ditch the chain and retrieve it later.

 

[ShinyShoe]

There's no good answer to this question. Single handed at anchor in a gale I would just wait for the gale to subside, if that were an option. There's simply no good way to do it.

If I were forced to do it, I think I would put the boat in gear and set the autopilot to maintain a steady heading. Which it might be incapable of doing in a gale -- N.B. If that sort of works, then I would go forward and get the anchor up as fast as I could.

If that doesn't sort of work, then I think you're kind of stuffed. If you nevertheless must leave the anchorage, then tie a fender and length of rope to the bitter end and jettison the chain.

I would never call a pan-pan for something like this. Just ditch the chain and retrieve it later.

But if you can't get to the bow to sort the anchor out coming up from the windlass can you get to it to tie on a fender and undo whatever its shackled to?

 

[Slowtack]

Maybe worth considering lines from bow to cockpit for engaging and disengaging the engine control lever "remotely" for motoring up on the anchor? The "engine offf" line could have a stop that limits the max engine revs.

 

[Aquarella]

I was not there I do not know... but another thought for the OP.

Had the anchor really dragged? It is amazing how far a boat feels to move if there has been a shift of wind direction, if the 20m of chain was laid in a pile and no real significant weight had been put on it, plus had the anchor been laid out in a different direction. Or the boat when the gust hit had been sailing towards one side it can feel like you are dragging anchor when the boat has not been brought up yet.

If this was the case the you would be trying to drive over the anchor chain, with he engine which would mean that keeping the heading would be impossible in those conditions.

One way I have of trying to judge this is hit the MOB button on my GPS where I think the anchor is on the bottom. (Ok I have hand held GPS which makes it easier) then monitor the distance. Or put the trail on the GPS on a very long time, if the anchor is dragging slowly there is a distinct zig zag shape or a scary straight line....


Maybe easing of on the throttle earlier and seeing if the chain took the weight might of been a consideration? VERY EASILY said, not so easy to do particularly if you have doubts about the quality /weight of the gear you have down...

Whilst your motoring and taking the weight of the chain you are reducing the force on the anchor chain which helps to maintaining your heading which will make the boat yaw about more...

As I said I do not know I was not there and they are tough calls to make at the time, just thoughts for you....

Interesting thoughts that did cross my mind several times but on the other hand I was so near the other boats with laid moorings I must have dragged. I had reversed as far as she could go when I dropped the anchor and I was no where near the other boats then. But a good idea to hit the MOB button next time. I also have an anchor alert app as an extra control. Although quite frightening, this was an experience I have learnt a lot from, especially with all the resulting advice here, thanks all of you !

 

[Dockhead]

But if you can't get to the bow to sort the anchor out coming up from the windlass can you get to it to tie on a fender and undo whatever its shackled to?

Pulling the anchor up and getting it secured aboard takes far more time than chucking the chain over. To chuck the chain over, you don't have to hold the bow into the wind. Tie on the fender, toss, and go. Much, much more feasible in rough weather. While you're faffing with getting the anchor up, you might be driven onto the rocks.

If you can't get to the bow at all -- well, you have to. Clip on and crawl up there and do it. If you can't even do that, then you need to start thinking about a liferaft.

As to "undo whatever it is shackled to" -- most reasonably sorted boats have a short length of rope between the bitter end of the anchor chain and the hard point. And a knife hanging next to it. Certainly mine does. Just for this sort of case.

 

[noelex]

These situations can be quite frightening especially when solo.

You have been given some good advice. One thing that has not been mentioned is that a dragging anchor usually has very little grip. Anchors are a bit like car tyres when they are skidding there is very little drag. There are exceptions and slow drags where the anchor remains set are more common than people think, but your example sounds like a typical rapid drag.

The reason for mentioning this is that a windlass can USUALLY be used to pull up the chain with a dragging anchor even when the boat is being blown downwind at considerable speed. It is not ideal, but with a rapidly dragging anchor the force on the chain is not enormously high and the windlass will usually find it acceptable especially for a flat anchor like the Brittany. (Which tend to have less grip dragging than most)

Motoring slowly forward is still the preferred method, but this this is no longer always essential in an emergency with a dragging anchor.

A large anchor winch and a strong bow roller are a big help.

 

[Robin]

Pulling the anchor up and getting it secured aboard takes far more time than chucking the chain over. To chuck the chain over, you don't have to hold the bow into the wind. Tie on the fender, toss, and go. Much, much more feasible in rough weather. While you're faffing with getting the anchor up, you might be driven onto the rocks.

If you can't get to the bow at all -- well, you have to. Clip on and crawl up there and do it. If you can't even do that, then you need to start thinking about a liferaft.

As to "undo whatever it is shackled to" -- most reasonably sorted boats have a short length of rope between the bitter end of the anchor chain and the hard point. And a knife hanging next to it. Certainly mine does. Just for this sort of case.

I have a spring assisted opening knife in my pocket at all times on board and did that (no doubt illegally too before moving out of the UK) for many years, I bought mine in France and kept it on board when I wasn't there.

 

[LittleSister]

A question as much as a suggestion. I'd be pleased to hear comments on its merits and shortcomings. (And don't need shooting down in flames, thankyou!)

Quite a few posts have mentioned the difficulty, if not near impossibility, of holding the head to wind in a gale. I can't help thinking 'Then don't!'.

Why not motor forward enough to give manouevring scope without constraint by any residual holding of the anchor, then let the wind take the bow round and REVERSE up to the approximate position of the anchor? Then drop the revs to approximately hold the boat against the force of the wind, and centre the rudder, while the wind holds the bow vaguely downwind. The boat will, of course, range around plenty and likely crab to one side, but it would, I imagine, give much more time to deal with the chain between needing to attend the wheel/motor controls to hold position, and doesn't need speed through the water to keep the boat pointing roughly in the same direction.

I've certainly not done this in those conditions, so happy to accept this might not work or be desirable for some reason. (We do use a similar technique in more modest winds when trying to manouevre our long keeler in tricky situations: when both Plan A and Plan B have failed we can usually hang there, bow downwind and using the motor to hold her against the wind, to give us time to try to think of Plans C and D!)