Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
I have just emailed Simon Mayne at WP Fuels, so I hope he will oblige with some detail.
Response from Chloe Smith (Red Diesel)
- Thread starter Elemental
- Start date
I have just emailed Simon Mayne at WP Fuels, so I hope he will oblige with some detail.
maby
Well-Known Member
There's an important distinction which determines who we need to talk to and what approach to take. Your post that I responded to said "The regs at the moment stipulate that Marine fuel must be free of FAME" - which would seem to imply government enforced rules and, unlike the situation with road fuel, I do not believe there are any. Various engine manufacturers and fuel suppliers have expressed opinions about the rules that should be applied when selecting a fuel for your boat, but as it stands, marinas can supply just about anything and you can use any grade of diesel - always assuming that you have met the taxation rules.
westernman
Well-Known Member
Prices in my marina (today's prices):-
Gasoil 1,55 €
Sans Plomb 95 1,61 €
Gasoil 1,55 €
Sans Plomb 95 1,61 €
goboatingnow
Well-Known Member
A lot of posters here missing the point. Both the UK and Ireland received derogations in relation to the single European act. This provided the legal basis to continue a practice that has existed. ( the supply of red diesel). That derogation ended and was not renewed as the relevant governments weren't interested in balloting the other member states to give " yotties" cheap fuel.
The reverse of the derogation was clear. Marked gas oil cannot be used for leisure propulsion use. It's says nothing about the tax position as that is not harmonised across Europe. Both the UK and Ireland are not in compliance ( the Irish are hoping it would go away , but you guys are ensuring that will not happen) !!
The commission reasoning is that the UK is allowing reduced tax fuel to be used for propulsion that's the kernel of its argument. Since the 60/40 split is nonsense as it can't be verified this has exacerbated the commission. The Irish case is that all duty must be paid, but marked fuel can still be carried. It's doubtful thats either countries compromise will survive any ruling.
This situation stems from lack of planning. There was 10 years notice. Nobody did anything. We can hardly complain now at our lack of planning.
The reverse of the derogation was clear. Marked gas oil cannot be used for leisure propulsion use. It's says nothing about the tax position as that is not harmonised across Europe. Both the UK and Ireland are not in compliance ( the Irish are hoping it would go away , but you guys are ensuring that will not happen) !!
The commission reasoning is that the UK is allowing reduced tax fuel to be used for propulsion that's the kernel of its argument. Since the 60/40 split is nonsense as it can't be verified this has exacerbated the commission. The Irish case is that all duty must be paid, but marked fuel can still be carried. It's doubtful thats either countries compromise will survive any ruling.
This situation stems from lack of planning. There was 10 years notice. Nobody did anything. We can hardly complain now at our lack of planning.
awol
Well-Known Member
Not quite! It's still the marked fuel that is the problem, nothing to do with the amount of tax paid (or not) or where it came from.
maby
Well-Known Member
It's the marked fuel that you, personally, get prosecuted for. It's the fact that the UK government is permitting "improper use" of tax reduced fuel that the commission is complaining about. The theory is that marking unambiguously indicates tax-reduced status - which it does not here or in Eire.
goboatingnow
Well-Known Member
I will not , if you give me your leave, expose my source. But I have it on good authority that the Commissions moves were based on the 60/40 issue. Belgium etc has raised the issue of the mere presence of the fuel color, a fact that I believe the commission were prepared to overlook. ( certainly Ireland was comfortable enough to believe so).
Unfortunately the cat and .. bag etc.
maby
Well-Known Member
I can well believe it! The 60/40 has been so blatently abused that it could hardly escape the notice of the commission. As has been pointed out before, we cannot be prosecuted for breaking directives, only national laws - and the Belgian law implementing the directive does so through the banning of the possession of red diesel in the fuel tanks of private vehicles
goboatingnow
Well-Known Member
I think its a most unfortunate state of affairs, primarily brought about by lack of action by the various sailing bodies. We did have 10 years notice. Both jurisdictions actually should be glad that their respective governments did and are trying to find a solution. Given our electoral strength!, we could have easily been ignored and just got the " pump white or else" law.
Now its a pickle and their isn't an easy solution. I don't believe that the proposed UK solution will satisfy the commission either . I suspect to keep the availability issue , the 60/40 will have to go.
Now its a pickle and their isn't an easy solution. I don't believe that the proposed UK solution will satisfy the commission either . I suspect to keep the availability issue , the 60/40 will have to go.
maby
Well-Known Member
We'll be getting off lightly if we can swing that one! Mandatory white seems more likely now. If the stupid RYA had not pressed for the 60/40, we might have been able to keep below the commission radar.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Would you mind posting the explicit quote from the directive, please?
maby
Well-Known Member
COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 2003/96/EC :
Article 14
1. In addition to the general provisions set out in Directive
92/12/EEC on exempt uses of taxable products, and without
prejudice to other Community provisions, Member States shall
exempt the following from taxation under conditions which
they shall lay down for the purpose of ensuring the correct and
straightforward application of such exemptions and of
preventing any evasion, avoidance or abuse:
…
(c) energy products supplied for use as fuel for the purposes of
navigation within Community waters (including fishing),
other than private pleasure craft, and electricity produced
on board a craft.
For the purposes of this Directive ‘private pleasure craft’
shall mean any craft used by its owner or the natural or
legal person who enjoys its use either through hire or
through any other means, for other than commercial
purposes and in particular other than for the carriage of
passengers or goods or for the supply of services for
consideration or for the purposes of public authorities.
