Response from Chloe Smith (Red Diesel)

jamesjermain said:
As someone who is 'intelligent...competent,...real...sensible...and capable of problerm solving at a high level' what would you do - given that you have to start from a point where red diesel exists and the Europeans won't accept it?
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Prohibit sale of, and use of, red diesel to pleasure craft. Market forces would force fuel suppliers to supply white to all but the remotest parts of the UK. Pleasure craft in those locations would then have to make their own bunkerage arrangements, as I now have to do.
Most of the popular sailing areas would have supplies of white available. Foreign yachts would be able to visit.
 
Sea_Spray said:
Prohibit sale of, and use of, red diesel to pleasure craft..
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Just like Europe has done in a controlled way since 1996 when we were first given 10 years notice of the removal of the derogation. The Europeans don't seem to have a problem using white and it is readily available. The leisure industry has not collapsed in a heap.

In my view doing nothing was a big big mistake, and now we are living with the consequences.
 
mikemanor said:
Just like Europe has done in a controlled way since 1996 when we were first given 10 years notice of the removal of the derogation. The Europeans don't seem to have a problem using white and it is readily available. The leisure industry has not collapsed in a heap.

In my view doing nothing was a big big mistake, and now we are living with the consequences.
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That's because their White costs about what we pay for 60/40 Red. If our diesel fuel wasn't so heavily taxed on the pretentions of being a tax for road use it might be acceptable.

I don't have any figure, but I suspect that we have more motor boats that the continent - and everybody forgets boats on the canals - ? 30,000 where propulsion use is really small compared to their domestic use.


I'm surprised that nobody has picked up on this
Unfortunately, following a complaint from an individual, the Commission challenged.....
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One person has caused all this furore and the Commission reacts???
 
Perhaps a complaint from an individual refers to an individual member state ie Belgium. Maybe, maybe not. At the end of the day we are where we are.

My view of the situation is the Uk are keeping some sort of rebate (which it is. Compare mobo / yacht propulsion vs heating costs etc) on red for leisure craft which in my book is a good thing. As has been stated earlier this gives us no real advantage over other eu countries as we are taxed to death here instead. So for the majority of uk red diesel users who dont go abroad a result.

So is it the majority who dont go abroad? Don't know the answer to that one but count myself in the group that does go to France a few times a year. Not going to worry about tuening up in France with red in the tank. honestly dont think the french are going to be to bothered. If they are then will worry about it when it happens. my personal view is that the uk are a member of the eu supplying me red legally and uk membership of eu allows me free movement within eu. No problem signing bit of paper stating the uk government are a bunch of spineless idiots when i fill up with red either.

Regards going to Belgium? No real solution there. Unfortunately they are acting like most small irrelevant people act when they join the big boys gang. Like to puff their chests alot and tell other people what to do.

Only consolation I have is having been to Belgium many times have no real desire to sail there. As far as I remember its only famous for chocolate and paedophile rings.
 
Sea_Spray said:
When this debacle first broke, I wrote to Chloe Smith (the MP that signed off the Impact Assessment)

I have posted her response in full.
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I have not yet had a reply from her. Is she your MP?

I have however sent another email to my MP, Andrew Tyrie (Chichester), with Chloe's reply to you. I will ring his office on Monday to find out what has happened.

This is just so ridiculous as to be unbelievable! Ostrich and sand comes to mind!
 
I though her reply was pretty honest and good. As there is no simple solution I am prepared to take my chances with Red, and benefit from the small tax reduction, even though I go to the ROI most years from Scotland.

Will be interesting to see when White arrives in some of the South Coast marinas, at a higher cost, what the take up will be. I am sure there will be many still going over to France opting for Red with the 60/40 price reduction.

I think there are a few people "indulging" on this thread and when given the choice of White or Red there actions will speak louder than their word!
 
kyleview said:
I though her reply was pretty honest and good. As there is no simple solution I am prepared to take my chances with Red, and benefit from the small tax reduction, even though I go to the ROI most years from Scotland.

Will be interesting to see when White arrives in some of the South Coast marinas, at a higher cost, what the take up will be. I am sure there will be many still going over to France opting for Red with the 60/40 price reduction.

I think there are a few people "indulging" on this thread and when given the choice of White or Red there actions will speak louder than their word!
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But the stupidity of it now is apparent not so much from that angle, but from the lack of any option for tourist vessels to do anything but break the UK law by buying the only diesel available, declaring it for use in the UK, then leaving with it.

The govt have ignored all the signs and have no sensible options now, so they take stupid options instead.
 
jamesjermain said:
As someone who is 'intelligent...competent,...real...sensible...and capable of problerm solving at a high level' what would you do - given that you have to start from a point where red diesel exists and the Europeans won't accept it?
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We started from that point 10 years so ago, but didn't act.
I'm not a politician or a lawyer, I don't have a civil service to advise me, nor access to interest groups who would have their own ideas.

I write software. I know that if a solution is good for most occasions then that is great, but you have to decide whether the ones it doesn't suit also have to be catered for. It seems here they have decided that foreign boats must look after themselves, so must UK boats that travel to Europe. It won't bother me personally, but that doesn't mean its a good solution.

There probably isn't a good solution when the wall is approaching and its too late to brake.
 
jamesjermain said:
As someone who is 'intelligent...competent,...real...sensible...and capable of problerm solving at a high level' what would you do - given that you have to start from a point where red diesel exists and the Europeans won't accept it?
Click to expand...
James, I remember chatting with you about stuff like this on a YM Triangle (I think it was 1990) and it's all coming to pass.
 
Phoenix of Hamble said:
Your solidarity does you credit. :(

Besides, in other parts of the UK, lots of boats do go overseas.
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I guess that over the entire UK, which includes inland waterways, less than 1 out of every 1000 boats ever goes foreign. For areas such as the Solent, where marinas are ten a penny and more than average boats go abroad, surely at least one could stock white?
 
GrahamM376 said:
I guess that over the entire UK, which includes inland waterways, less than 1 out of every 1000 boats ever goes foreign. For areas such as the Solent, where marinas are ten a penny and more than average boats go abroad, surely at least one could stock white?
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That's what I'm hoping. Otherwise it's off to Chbg to tank up.
 
mikemanor said:
Just like Europe has done in a controlled way since 1996 when we were first given 10 years notice of the removal of the derogation. The Europeans don't seem to have a problem using white and it is readily available. The leisure industry has not collapsed in a heap.

In my view doing nothing was a big big mistake, and now we are living with the consequences.
Click to expand...

+1
 
perhaps im being a touch naive but isnt there a much simpler solution?
the problem is simply one of duty is it not?
so,dont put dye in the fuel. initiate a leisure boat owners register for the purchase of reduced duty fuel which is linked to the owners debit/credit card and linked to the owners boat.
 
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