Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared ?

[pampas]

History of the Amver System - Amver.com

Ships leaving UK register port of dparture and final destination plus anticipated speed, position sent to USa daily, You are alerted if required by USA if required.

This is a brief description of how it works. copy and paste link into Google, sorry but it should have transfered as a link.

 

[Searush]

always wondered why breeches buoys were no longer used?

seperate the boats. but get wet

There is little inertia in a yacht on the sea, so you could only hold the cable taut by motoring against the pressure of the person on the line. That requires someone left on the yacht & in full control of it.

 

[SAWDOC]

Very interesting collection of videos which are worthwhile viewing so thanks for posting!

 

[prv]

Transfer of pilots is an interesting point. I have no specialist knowledge, but don't they use "rope ladders" with flat wooden "rungs"? That's what has been shown on "Somewhere at Sea" & "3men in a load of boats" on TV.

That's what's used on Stavros, although bigger pilot boats sometimes have a deck level close enough to ours not to need the ladder. We report the height of the boarding gate to the pilot-boat by radio and they say whether they want the ladder or not.

I believe large modern ships have powered pilot hoists, possibly with a short conventional ladder up to them so that the boarding procedure remains consistent.

Pete

 

[JayBee]

I believe large modern ships have powered pilot hoists, possibly with a short conventional ladder up to them so that the boarding procedure remains consistent.
Pete

Most pilots refuse to use hoists as they are usually air motor driven and notoriously prone to failure - either leaving the pilot stranded half way up the ship's side or lowered into the water. On one occasion that I have direct experience of, the hoist swung away from the ship's side, twisted and slammed back again on the roll, leaving the pilot with his back to the ship's side, peering out through the hoist ladder rungs with the wires crossed above him.

Also, in swell conditions, the pilot needs to get well clear of the boat by climbing the first few steps as quickly as possible, having timed his transfer while the boat is at a high point relative to the bottom of the ladder.

There is an international agreement that pilots will not climb higher than 9 metres vertically on a conventional pilot ladder, transferring if necessary to the ship's accommodation ladder, rigged adjacent to the ladder.

Some info here: http://www.marisec.org/PilotLadders.pdf

None of these refinements are likely to be readily available in a yacht rescue situation.

 

[Erik C]

I read the tread about the rescue effort involving sv Triumpf, I hope never to be in a simular situation but if so I will most certainly never talk about it on a public forum. The amount of abuse from all sides is hard to comprehend, a lot of lessons to be learned though. Also made me realise how lucky I have been sailing an identical boat across the Atlantic with my wife as crew. Anyway, that's all in the past now as my wife did not enjoy the lifestyle and we decided to sell the boat. Next up a mobo for coastal and inland use only

 

[smackdaddy]

I read the tread about the rescue effort involving sv Triumpf, I hope never to be in a simular situation but if so I will most certainly never talk about it on a public forum. The amount of abuse from all sides is hard to comprehend, a lot of lessons to be learned though. Also made me realise how lucky I have been sailing an identical boat across the Atlantic with my wife as crew. Anyway, that's all in the past now as my wife did not enjoy the lifestyle and we decided to sell the boat. Next up a mobo for coastal and inland use only

Yeah wouldbe, that's why I mentioned in the first post that Doug had a serious set of stones to be willing to lay it all out. I just hope the focus now shifts to the "lessons to be learned" as you point out. And I hope Doug gets involved with it.

We'll see.

 

[goboatingnow]

So what's the AMVER programme then?

Pete

asleep during your VHF course were we Pete??

 

[smackdaddy]

The Cruising World article is online here:

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how-to/seamanship/rescue-at-sea-what-happens-when-the-freighter-arrives

Let me know if you guys think this would be valuable to the RYA/RNLI training and I might give them a ring.

Thanks to all who chipped in with comments.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I think information like this should be part of the RYA/MCA syllabus in a similar manner to how helicopter rescue is taught. The RYA/MCA has sea survival courses and decent literature on offshore safety which would be another useful vehicle for transferring this knowledge. They have a good department for distilling information and converting that into syllabus and course detail and they also have started a new lessons learned publication.

I would advise that you contact them on this subject directly yourself. The RYA believe in voluntary education and they are a listening organisation as well, so you should get some support from them.

The offshore safety course: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/specialist/Pages/Offshoresafety.aspx

 

[KellysEye]

>Do you push for uniform, industry-wide procedures, equipment and training for all AMVER participants?

How on earth can you train yachtsmen to be rescued. To train them you would have to be lifted by Helicopter, rescued from a life raft, picked up by ship and whatever else. Extraordinarily expensive and not practical.

>And ALL of them have their very real dangers and need for specific consideration and preparation.

A storm is potentially dangerous and you can't train for it other having been in one. People have been killed in storms has anyone ever been killed being rescued? I've never heard of it.

Frankly I think you are wasting your time, as I said, it's not practically possible.

 

[onesea]

I'm surprised about there not being a better solution to getting on board a large vessel. They are bristling with cranes and I would have thought something like a cage could be utilised on the end of a hook.

Not all ships are many only have provisions cranes that barely only reach the quay. Looks like this one is a tanker derrick for decking hoses and many really do not have that much reach. Plus there is the issue of certification for man riding, although in an emergency.... Once passed that there is having a skilled crane driver to drive the crane at sea, its not as easy as it looks. The ships roll and it turns in the person into a pendulum with surprising ease!

You need to be fit & strong to safely climb the side of a ship using one of them & the transfer usually takes place in a relatively sheltered spot. In addition the Pilots are used to dealing with the sitation. Mid-Ocean rescues of exhausted, debilitated & frightened people, possibly also seasick or injured are a very different issue - especially when they have never climbed a ladder, used a breeches bouy or whatever.

From the books I have read that were written by rescued survivors, they have been very happy to climb scramble nets, despite being severely dehydrated & half-starved. I suspect that it has a lot to do with how desperate your situation is & how determined you are to survive. Perhaps someone who is simply uncomfortable & frightened needs more consideration when being rescued?

Very true unless they see there son safely onboard and give up.

As I understand ships do not like launching there MOB boat they only get chance to use them a few times a year in calm conditions and for the drills they have little hands on experience. So at sea with above crane issues with equipment that is often far from perfect...

Big ship set up.

What ships "should" have:

Should because for many vessels slight variations do occur and "normally" make access safer! If not legal because of that normally!

If I was going to have to do this... Allot would depend on master and ship and my boat.As they tried yacht alongside for and aft ropes, into dinghy and up pilot ladder.

Unless I can find away that the boats mast is not going to have a swipe at me on the way up.... If your abandoning your boat, I guess you need to have a mind set switch that you do not care about it.... I fit means stemming into the ship using engine do it, all that matter is you get off safe and do not hurt the ship!

Then every ship is different but with different crews you might get luck and one of these might pop up with a choice of heave compensated cranes to lift your boat onboard. They could probably then send divers to check the alignment of the strops, before lifting. Find you a rudder shaft service your engine repair the damage to the rudder and send you on the way.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

>Do you push for uniform, industry-wide procedures, equipment and training for all AMVER participants?

How on earth can you train yachtsmen to be rescued. To train them you would have to be lifted by Helicopter, rescued from a life raft, picked up by ship and whatever else. Extraordinarily expensive and not practical.

>And ALL of them have their very real dangers and need for specific consideration and preparation.

A storm is potentially dangerous and you can't train for it other having been in one. People have been killed in storms has anyone ever been killed being rescued? I've never heard of it.

Frankly I think you are wasting your time, as I said, it's not practically possible.

Don't be so close minded and you are clearly wrong in that it is not practically possible. Imagine never having knowledge of a helicopter rescue, or of basic sea survival and then having to participate for real. Now compare this to someone who has received training, guidance and participated in discussions on helicopter rescue and sea survival. I see no reason why ship rescue could not be a subject that is taught. Sure, it is not a standardised process but the there are established ways of boarding a ship from sea: ladder, winched, net, knotted rope, near sea level doors, spring to mind. Then there is preparation: approach, lifejackets inflated/not inflated, expectations, yacht/ship behaviour close too, knifes, securing yacht alongside, ditching mast and boom or not.

I honestly cant see a reason why such a subject could not be taught. I grant that it is a limited to a small number of sailors but then again look at the growth of ocean crossing rallies. In fact, I think it is a subject crying out to be reviewed, coalesced, structured and taught for those interested in long distance cruising.

 

[KellysEye]

>Don't be so close minded and you are clearly wrong in that it is not practically possible.

It isn't practically possible, knowledge is not the same as practice of what is taught. I agree the subject should be taught but not what the OP posted 'do you force the entire maritime industry to conform to "better protocols"?'

I think the OP's idea of danger (nobody killed) is slightly perverse he should try BASE jumping.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

...... It isn't practically possible ......

Offshore Survival Courses for the North Sea Oil and Gas industry used to include climbing up a net from an environmental pool which was cold, had waves, was dark and flashed strobe lights for lightening effects; the instructors also sprayed the trainees from fire hydrant sized hoses. I believe that this has now stopped as the practical worth of climbing up the net while being hosed was dubious. Someone may have had a heart attack as well - vague memory of that being reported.

 

[KellysEye]

Offshore Survival Courses for the North Sea Oil and Gas industry used to include climbing up a net from an environmental pool which was cold,...

Yes practice can be done in a fixed place, whether it's oil rigs or a rugby pitches, but what is the chance of practicing with helicopters, ships etc - none. The only thing that can be practised is as I mentioned is lifejacket and life raft. Which is why I think the OP is on the wrong track.

 

[BruceDanforth]

I've always focussed my attentions on not having to get rescued.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Offshore Survival Courses for the North Sea Oil and Gas industry used to include climbing up a net from an environmental pool which was cold,...

Yes practice can be done in a fixed place, whether it's oil rigs or a rugby pitches, but what is the chance of practicing with helicopters, ships etc - none. The only thing that can be practised is as I mentioned is lifejacket and life raft. Which is why I think the OP is on the wrong track.

There is a sailing school on the Firth of Clyde that gets to practice with the helicopter on a fairly regular basis as the instructor is ex search and rescue. It's a bit unfair on the other schools as they used to get a shot every now and then but not now. However, that is an exception.

 

[BruceDanforth]

The sanctuary boat wouldn't have needed rescuing if it wasn't for idiots letting a newbie crew out in v poor weather.

 

[smackdaddy]

I think information like this should be part of the RYA/MCA syllabus in a similar manner to how helicopter rescue is taught. The RYA/MCA has sea survival courses and decent literature on offshore safety which would be another useful vehicle for transferring this knowledge. They have a good department for distilling information and converting that into syllabus and course detail and they also have started a new lessons learned publication.

I would advise that you contact them on this subject directly yourself. The RYA believe in voluntary education and they are a listening organisation as well, so you should get some support from them.

The offshore safety course: http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/specialist/Pages/Offshoresafety.aspx

I'll do that. Thank you very much BOB.