Reply from Eberspacher UK re regular monthly use, decoking with paraffin, etc

John_Clarke

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I have had the following email conversation with Eberspacher UK which may be of interest to other Eberspacher owners. They kindly agreed to me posting this conversation. I have edited out all but the technical content.

Email 1
I have an Airtronic D4 heater installed in a dry locker in my boat. The manual recommends running it once a month. I usually do not visit the boat much during the winter so it is hard to keep up this schedule. Also, in the summer it may be uncomfortable to run the heater at full output.

Please could you tell me what the possible consequences are of not running it monthly. How important is this?

Reply 1
Running the heater on a regular basis is required for two reasons, the first is to keep the little plunger in the fuel metering pump from sticking and the second is to keep the diesel fuel in the fuel lines fresh.

I would say, if your diesel is relatively clean and dry then two or three months should be possible. If you have copper fuel lines fitted you may find even this short period of time too long to have the heater start reliably first time. Unfortunately copper degrades modern diesel fuel at an alarming rate and as the boat safety scheme will not let us use any alternative we are where we are.

As for running your heater during the summer months, this can be safely done when no one is aboard, so if you are washing down, packing sails or having a swift half in the local etc. just pop the heater on for 15 minutes to refresh the lines and keep the pump active.

Email 2
I am considering installing an alternative paraffin feed to my heater to burn off carbon deposits. Would paraffin in the pump and copper pipe avoid the problems of the plunger sticking and degradation of the fuel?

Reply 2
Unfortunately due to miss information recently printed in the press paraffin or kerosene will not clean the carbon out of a heater. If you read the article in Practical Boat Owner, the photographs showed the inside of a truck heater that had run on clean EN590 specification diesel, most truck heaters look like that when you open them up.

Many marinas now supply the new ultra low sulphur gas oil (red diesel), if your marina is supplying this then paraffin would be a waste of time as far as keeping your heater clean was concerned, the new fuel is particularly clean burning. Also to comply with ISO 10088 regulations and or Boat safety Scheme, if you are estuary or inland based, your paraffin tank would have to be securely mounted with a clearly labelled deck filler and breather system, any hoses would have to conform to ISO 7840.

We have not tried long term testing with paraffin or kerosene to see if there is any improvement in the length of time a heater can be left for? However a fuel stabiliser with an anti-oxidant added to standard gas oil (red diesel) will help with longevity of fuel life.

If you must leave your heater for extended periods of time and the pump plunger does stick, sometimes it can be freed (unofficially) by a sharp tap on the pump body with an 11/16 or 17mm sized spanner (ideal size), please bear in mind though, if this trick does not work a new pump may cost in the region of £160.

Email 3
I am bit puzzled that you say that paraffin will not clean out the carbon – there is the following document on the American Espar site: http://www.espar.com/tech_manuals/AIRTRONIC%202-4/!Airtronic%20Flame%20Tube%20Carbon%20Removal.pdf which recommends the use of paraffin for removing carbon from the heater. Are they wrong and why would they have this document on their website?

I am using Marine 16 Diesel Fuel Maintenance which they state “brings stored fuel up to spec, uplifts cetane value plus 3 for easier starting. Prevents "diesel bug", continuous use will reduce fuel system deposits, gums and varnishes to zero giving cleaner burn, power restoration, fuel economy and prevents injector blocking.” There is no mention of it being an anti-oxidant but I will ask them.

Reply 3
I am unfortunately aware of the Espar page and yes it has caused us a few issues, you will also notice that no other Eberspacher website in the world makes a similar statement. This post has probably been taken somewhat out of context. Basically if a heater has had a short term fuelling issue or exhaust blockage for example and this scenario has produced soft, oily carbon deposits within the burner chamber and flame tube, then burning a very clean fuel such as paraffin or kerosene will turn that carbon to ash and the heater should then blow it out of the exhaust thus cleaning the heater. Please note the part of their statement that says “it may be possible to clean the burner”, not it is possible. You will see from the photographs halfway down the Espar document that this is the light fluffy form of carbon I have mentioned.

The type of hard baked on carbon that is usually found in heaters running on high sulphur marine gas oil (MGO) or standard gas oil (35 second heating oil) sold as marine red diesel, heaters running for many years without service or heaters running for excessive periods of time in low heat mode, then paraffin unfortunately won’t touch it.

Marine 16 seems to be a well-respected product although we have done no testing with it ourselves but they do offer a Diesel Fuel Stabiliser, this maybe a better product to use in your case?
 
Since you appear to have a very good relationship with them, it would be interesting if you can get them to tell you just WHAT chemical/procedure THEY use for cleaning the combustion chamber (in situ or dismantled). I for one have never succeeded in getting a useful answer from them ..... so many of us have invented our own methods by trial and error.

Vic
 
Since you appear to have a very good relationship with them, it would be interesting if you can get them to tell you just WHAT chemical/procedure THEY use for cleaning the combustion chamber (in situ or dismantled). I for one have never succeeded in getting a useful answer from them ..... so many of us have invented our own methods by trial and error.

Vic

They have been very helpful in order to clarify the incorrect information surrounding this matter. They are happy for me to act as a go between on general technical questions such as yours. They do not want me post the name of the contact to avoid them getting a deluge of emails on matters such as why their heater does not work - these should be directed to the dealers.

I will wait to see if there are other questions before asking again. The contact is busy but seems willing to help.
 
Your contact sounds like a very helpful guy with a sensible approach, perhaps a good reason to choose Eberspacher.
I especially like the advice about what size spanner to whack the pump with:)
 
John

Last year I dismantled my D4, took photos of the combustion unit, reassembled it with new gaskets, ran it on paraffin for 7 hours, dismantled it and took a second set of photos.

If you want to see the difference check out one of my previous postings. If you cannot find the relevant posting then let me know and I will find the photos.

Rgds MartinJ.
 
Last edited:
I have had the following email conversation with Eberspacher UK which may be of interest to other Eberspacher owners. They kindly agreed to me posting this conversation. I have edited out all but the technical content.

Email 1
I have an Airtronic D4 heater installed in a dry locker in my boat. The manual recommends running it once a month. I usually do not visit the boat much during the winter so it is hard to keep up this schedule. Also, in the summer it may be uncomfortable to run the heater at full output.

Please could you tell me what the possible consequences are of not running it monthly. How important is this?

Reply 1
Running the heater on a regular basis is required for two reasons, the first is to keep the little plunger in the fuel metering pump from sticking and the second is to keep the diesel fuel in the fuel lines fresh.

I would say, if your diesel is relatively clean and dry then two or three months should be possible. If you have copper fuel lines fitted you may find even this short period of time too long to have the heater start reliably first time. Unfortunately copper degrades modern diesel fuel at an alarming rate and as the boat safety scheme will not let us use any alternative we are where we are.

As for running your heater during the summer months, this can be safely done when no one is aboard, so if you are washing down, packing sails or having a swift half in the local etc. just pop the heater on for 15 minutes to refresh the lines and keep the pump active.

Email 2
I am considering installing an alternative paraffin feed to my heater to burn off carbon deposits. Would paraffin in the pump and copper pipe avoid the problems of the plunger sticking and degradation of the fuel?

Reply 2
Unfortunately due to miss information recently printed in the press paraffin or kerosene will not clean the carbon out of a heater. If you read the article in Practical Boat Owner, the photographs showed the inside of a truck heater that had run on clean EN590 specification diesel, most truck heaters look like that when you open them up.

Many marinas now supply the new ultra low sulphur gas oil (red diesel), if your marina is supplying this then paraffin would be a waste of time as far as keeping your heater clean was concerned, the new fuel is particularly clean burning. Also to comply with ISO 10088 regulations and or Boat safety Scheme, if you are estuary or inland based, your paraffin tank would have to be securely mounted with a clearly labelled deck filler and breather system, any hoses would have to conform to ISO 7840.

We have not tried long term testing with paraffin or kerosene to see if there is any improvement in the length of time a heater can be left for? However a fuel stabiliser with an anti-oxidant added to standard gas oil (red diesel) will help with longevity of fuel life.

If you must leave your heater for extended periods of time and the pump plunger does stick, sometimes it can be freed (unofficially) by a sharp tap on the pump body with an 11/16 or 17mm sized spanner (ideal size), please bear in mind though, if this trick does not work a new pump may cost in the region of £160.

Email 3
I am bit puzzled that you say that paraffin will not clean out the carbon – there is the following document on the American Espar site: http://www.espar.com/tech_manuals/AIRTRONIC%202-4/!Airtronic%20Flame%20Tube%20Carbon%20Removal.pdf which recommends the use of paraffin for removing carbon from the heater. Are they wrong and why would they have this document on their website?

I am using Marine 16 Diesel Fuel Maintenance which they state “brings stored fuel up to spec, uplifts cetane value plus 3 for easier starting. Prevents "diesel bug", continuous use will reduce fuel system deposits, gums and varnishes to zero giving cleaner burn, power restoration, fuel economy and prevents injector blocking.” There is no mention of it being an anti-oxidant but I will ask them.

Reply 3
I am unfortunately aware of the Espar page and yes it has caused us a few issues, you will also notice that no other Eberspacher website in the world makes a similar statement. This post has probably been taken somewhat out of context. Basically if a heater has had a short term fuelling issue or exhaust blockage for example and this scenario has produced soft, oily carbon deposits within the burner chamber and flame tube, then burning a very clean fuel such as paraffin or kerosene will turn that carbon to ash and the heater should then blow it out of the exhaust thus cleaning the heater. Please note the part of their statement that says “it may be possible to clean the burner”, not it is possible. You will see from the photographs halfway down the Espar document that this is the light fluffy form of carbon I have mentioned.

The type of hard baked on carbon that is usually found in heaters running on high sulphur marine gas oil (MGO) or standard gas oil (35 second heating oil) sold as marine red diesel, heaters running for many years without service or heaters running for excessive periods of time in low heat mode, then paraffin unfortunately won’t touch it.

Marine 16 seems to be a well-respected product although we have done no testing with it ourselves but they do offer a Diesel Fuel Stabiliser, this maybe a better product to use in your case?
I wrote that article. I presume you are talking about Peter Collard?
He complained about the article and I addressed his concerns. Some of them not relevant in our environment. The relevant ones and my answers were printed in the next months PBO.
He accused me of "frightening miss-information (sic) and inaccuracies"
I dont want to get in to a public slanging match but it is not nice to see those accusations resurfacing.
I would also point out that in the emails that went backwards and forwards he said "Mr Davies is right in another statement “there is a plentiful second-hand supply”. I wonder if he is aware we were supplying BT with 35 D2 Air heaters a month to replace heaters stolen from their vans last year?"
Why would anyone make reference to stolen Ebers in this context?
He went on to say "it is my job to look after the marine market and I/we are extremely concerned with the issues uneducated reporting and the second hand heater market are creating."
Hmmm.
Stu
PS if anyone wants his email address you can PM me
 
John

Last year I dismantled my D4, took photos of the combustion unit, reassembled it with new gaskets, ran it on paraffin for 7 hours, dismantled it and took a second set of photos.

If you want to see the difference check out one of my previous postings. If you cannot find the relevant posting then let me know and I will find the photos.

Rgds MartinJ.

Thanks Martin. I have found your photos http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258433&page=3 Looks very clean and an impressive difference.
 
You could ask them if the same advice applies to Webasto? :)

I asked a Webasto guy at the London Boat Show about running on paraffin in order to clean carbon deposits in a Webasto Air Top 5000. He said that it wasn't designed to run on paraffin and would probably result in local overheating and damage.

I looked at the internals displayed on the stand and could see that fuel seemed to be atomised by passing through a fine mesh. He confirmed that carbon built up here and that people usually made the mistake of scrubbing it off with a wire brush. This left high spots behind and they became hotspots which caused further damage.

My old D3L was much simpler to clean. It simply dripped fuel into a spinning cup, resulting in a thin film. This film atomised on passing through small holes in the end of the cup. All very easy to dismantle to clean out carbon deposits in this area.

It certainly looks as if the Webasto can't be cleaned as easily and he sounded convincing about not using paraffin.

I did have one doubt about the fact that I was told paraffin shouldn't be used. I'm pretty certain I saw a Webasto document stating that my heater could run on either diesel or paraffin. Unfortunately, I can't find it in my pile of manuals. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks.
 
Its already happened! It was in last months.
Stu

Thank you - I have now found it on page 12 of the February issue.

Peter Collard and David Pugh seem to clarify safety issues with the installation of secondhand heaters.

Unfortunately I no longer have the December issue with your article.
 
Thank you - I have now found it on page 12 of the February issue.

Peter Collard and David Pugh seem to clarify safety issues with the installation of secondhand heaters.

Unfortunately I no longer have the December issue with your article.
Yup, from my input.
Stu
 
My experience

From extensive use of my Eber (Hydronic D5) using both standard red (from my marina, assumed to be high sulphur) and white from the local Tesco or Morrisons; I have found that the period between de-cokes is much much longer when using white compared to the red. The burner unit is noticeably cleaner having run on white and is easier to clean. I use a small industrial ultrasonic cleaning bath for mine. Not cheap on eBay, but compared to either servicing or parts costs for eber, not too bad. I have two burner units which I swap round at de-coke time. I can then clean the dirty one in slow-time ready for the next time.
 
Why not just ask Webasto, I rarely comment on Ebo apart from generalities and would not expect somebody from Ebo to comment on Webasto. Would you ask a Ford dealer for advice on a Vauxhall? :)

There was a degree of humour in my suggestion!
 
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