Replacing an engine: your thoughts on what unit to choose?

[Fossil]

After much aggravation and more money than I like to think about having been thrown at it over the last few years, the very old Volvo MD7A on my boat (an Allan Wright designed Nova 28) has finally been condemned. The Volvo agents here in New Zealand have recommended repowering with another Volvo unit, the D1 - 13 or 20 HP unit. I have also been looking at the Beta 14 SD motor. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on these units, or other suggestions? It's a 28-foot yacht, clean design underwater, and the MD7's 12.5 HP seemed to push it along quite adequately. The old saildrive would probably also be too worn-out to fit to the new unit but might have some value as salvage. Is it worth fitting a folding prop at the same time? Needless to say, the whole exercise is going to cost more than the boat is worth, except that without a working engine, a boat is just an expensive hunk of fibreglass occupying an expensive hole in the water. Oh well, that's sailing, I guess!

 

[ChromeDome]

I can't recommend any over others but would start with a clean sheet to gather facts and make a fair comparison, recalling past experiences with brands, parts, availability of service and service providers.

New engines are probably all ok (in fact many are marinised variants of the same base engines) so access to service can be crucial.

First of all budgets for investment and operation.
Next, a clarification of make/buy, perhaps the possibility of switching to outboard motor.
And then a requirements specification with the obvious like electronic or mechanical fuel system, dimensions and weight, an engine with about the same power (13 hp) and rev range (max. 2600 rpm) to match existing gearbox or prop, freshwater cooling and more.

Also think about new instrument panel and remote control installation in place of the existing one.

Once everything is gathered get answers from suppliers and understand availability/delivery times.

Finally prioritise (need- or nice-to-have) and score the facts.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I

I can't recommend any over others but would start with a clean sheet to gather facts and make a fair comparison, recalling past experiences with brands, parts, availability of service and service providers.

New engines are probably all ok (in fact many are marinised variants of the same base engines) so access to service can be crucial.

First of all budgets for investment and operation.
Next, a clarification of make/buy, perhaps the possibility of switching to outboard motor.
And then a requirements specification with the obvious like electronic or mechanical fuel system, dimensions and weight, an engine with about the same power (13 hp) and rev range (max. 2600 rpm) to match existing gearbox or prop, freshwater cooling and more.

Also think about new instrument panel and remote control installation in place of the existing one.

Once everything is gathered get answers from suppliers and understand availability/delivery times.

Finally prioritise (need- or nice-to-have) and score the facts.

I agree 100%. With the caveat that a high priority will be what will be an easy fit on the engine bearers and hole where the sail drive goes. Modifying engine bearers is not that difficult but if you don’t have to modify them it’s one less job to do.
I don’t think any modern marine diesel is inherently bad. Nanni, Beta, Volvo, Vetus, etc all make/marinise decent engines.

 

[Daydream believer]

One point to note might be where the nearest & best service agent is to the OP's location. I have both Beta ( in my launch) & Volvo( In my yacht). The Volvo is dead easy to get parts for because the dealer is only 45 mins drive away & I have never found them to be out of stock of parts for my MD2020 engine. It was also easier & better to have their engineer deal with a problem with the engine, when I had one. Albeit a tad expensive.
The Beta tech dept, on the other hand, is on the end of a phone line, but not so easy for a "general chat", about any issues. That being said, the information given was helpful. But one cannot take the old part in & say " I want a new one of those please" & have it immediately.

 

[38mess]

If a 'new engine will cost more than the boat is worth' then you will never get your money back. Is the old engine really terminal? Could you fit an outboard? Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[Stemar]

Needless to say, the whole exercise is going to cost more than the boat is worth, except that without a working engine, a boat is just an expensive hunk of fibreglass

Too true and, I would suggest, while an OB might be a cheaper option, it will devalue the boat significantly; Your boat with a new engine is one people will want, with an OB, they won't unless she's very cheap, and an OB is always going to feel second best. I can't tell which engine to fit other than to echo DD's comment that the one with local parts and service is likely to be better than one where bits have to come from afar.

As for the folding prop idea, financially, no, it isn't worth it, but I read an article basically answering the question "Should I buy a spinny or a cruising chute?" The answer was, Neither. Spend your money on a folding/feathering prop because it will benefit your performance all the time you're under sail. If you can afford it, I reckon it'd put a smile on your face quite often.

 

[Praxinoscope]

After sales service is obviously an important factor in choosing which engine, as the O.P seems to be based in NZ then recommendations from U.K. based responses can’t help on this actor.
On my previous boat I replaced an old worn out Stuart Turner with a Beta 10, which behaved perfectly for the further 20 years that I had the boat, and which to the best of my knowledge is still working well for the new owner.
My current boat came fitted with a Beta 14, ( very similar engine to te 10), which I fully expect to behave in much the same way as the Beta 10 did. Beta engines are based upon the Kubota diesel and seem to be competitively priced.
As Daydream believer says, Beta are on the end of the phone and are also very helpful, but it my be that the availability of Volvo spares etc. may be easier in NZ.

 

[Tranona]

With a saildrive, Volvo every time. Not only is it easier to fit where your current Volvo is, but the drive is better than the ones that Beta use. As already said there is really little to choose between the actual engines in terms of performance and reliability. I have had 2 Volvos, both saildrives and no problems - the first did 3500 hours in my ownership. However i have just installed a Beta in a shaft drive boat primarily because the Volvo dealer did not want to speak to me sensibly whereas the Beta dealer was a pleasure to deal with.

As to size, this depends primarily on displacement and the 13 is OK up to about 2500kgs but over that a 20 is worth having as you will be able to run at lower revs when cruising and be able to achieve hull speed easily. No penalty in fuel consumption at a given speed but obviously slightly higher initial cost. Folding prop well worth having - suggest a Flexofold 2 blade, not a Volvo. You will probably need a new prop anyway and in the UK a folder is about £600 more than a fixed.

 

[johnalison]

I think that 20hp would be generous. We had an 18 hp engine in our Sadler 29 with a fixed 2-blade prop and that was more than adequate for our purposes, in fact 18 was the standard option for Bav 34s at one time. I think that anything around the 15 mark would be fine but I haven’t looked at engines recently. A friend replaced an 8 hp engine in his Trapper 501 with a Yanmar 15 which was fine except that the larger engine made access very difficult. A folding prop will greatly increase sailing pleasure and even speed.

 

[Daydream believer]

I would have thought that a 28 ft yacht is not really suitable craft for an outboard . It would need to be big & of course a heavy lump to stick on the transom . The old sail drive hole would need filling in as I would doubt that it could be used as a well for the outboard. In addition the transom would probably have to be strengthened.

I do not know the cost of a suitable long shaft O/B. Possibly £5K by the time it was all fitted with controls etc. Does that sound right?

Here in the UK a new Volvo 20 HP inboard C/W saildrive would be in the £8 K bracket, if the OP can fit himself.

 

[ChromeDome]

A lot of good advice and we all seem to agree.

Unfortunately, older boats that get new engine(s) will sell for what it cost to replace the engine(s) -at best.

The problem of course is that if you don't fix or change the engine(s) the boat is both useless and worthless.

You are therefore forced to invest to some extent and you need to focus on getting the benefit of the investment over the time you own the boat. A time that needs to be long, to ensure the most enjoyment from an investment with no return.

Outboard motors might make the attraction value less, but if the investment and value to the current owner are better it might be cheaper/wiser because the total loss will be less on a future sale.

Fitting a bracket and hanging a 15 hp 4-stroke on the transom is certainly quicker and much cheaper than anything else and maintenance, repair or a replacement will be a piece of cake.

A bracket would allow to raise the engine out of the water when so desired, but else be there permanently.

I guess a 15 hp four stroke is in the nz$ 3.000 range (£ 1500). Food for thought?

 

[doug748]

After much aggravation and more money than I like to think about having been thrown at it over the last few years, the very old Volvo MD7A on my boat (an Allan Wright designed Nova 28) has finally been condemned. The Volvo agents here in New Zealand have recommended repowering with another Volvo unit, the D1 - 13 or 20 HP unit. I have also been looking at the Beta 14 SD motor. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on these units, or other suggestions? It's a 28-foot yacht, clean design underwater, and the MD7's 12.5 HP seemed to push it along quite adequately. The old saildrive would probably also be too worn-out to fit to the new unit but might have some value as salvage. Is it worth fitting a folding prop at the same time? Needless to say, the whole exercise is going to cost more than the boat is worth, except that without a working engine, a boat is just an expensive hunk of fibreglass occupying an expensive hole in the water. Oh well, that's sailing, I guess!

Well worth doing on an old boat - provided you intend to keep it a fair while. I would go for the folding prop, it would put a nice edge on your sailing performance

Few people actually want a Volvo engine but ease of installation may override that. Beta have an excellent reputation in the UK but, in your situation, the local representatives are important. Speak to them and maybe some customers, if the vibes are not good, think again. I can't imagine Nanni or Vetus would come into the equation unless there was some local offer that was attractive.

If you decide Beta is a possibility, do speak directly to their technical people in the UK so you get the spec you actually need. If you are happy with 12.5hp (I had one on a 4ton 32 ft boat it was ok) then 14 will be fine or the 16 may suit. The only advantage of the 20 is that it is 3 cylinder, I think it is really too big for your boat. Let us know how you get on.

.

 

[Lightwave395]

I replaced my Yanmar 3GM30 6 years ago, I was disappointed by the price of a new Yanmar so investigated both Beta and Sole which were appreciably cheaper. Unfortunately the amount of work needed to fit either of these would remove much of the financial benefit and as I was pondering further I got the opportunity to buy a virtually new 3YM30 which had done just 50 hours for half it's new price and which just dropped straight in.
I don't know much about the differences between Volvo and alternatives but it's a point to bear in mind,
As an aside, I too did find Beta helpful

 

[oldmanofthehills]

After much aggravation and more money than I like to think about having been thrown at it over the last few years, the very old Volvo MD7A on my boat (an Allan Wright designed Nova 28) has finally been condemned. The Volvo agents here in New Zealand have recommended repowering with another Volvo unit, the D1 - 13 or 20 HP unit. I have also been looking at the Beta 14 SD motor. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on these units, or other suggestions? It's a 28-foot yacht, clean design underwater, and the MD7's 12.5 HP seemed to push it along quite adequately. The old saildrive would probably also be too worn-out to fit to the new unit but might have some value as salvage. Is it worth fitting a folding prop at the same time? Needless to say, the whole exercise is going to cost more than the boat is worth, except that without a working engine, a boat is just an expensive hunk of fibreglass occupying an expensive hole in the water. Oh well, that's sailing, I guess!

The Volvo agent in XX town on the yy channel reccomended a Yanmar which did our old boat nicely. Our Volvo Penta partly failed due to rubbish cooling system design causing overheating. I would never buy Volvo

Out current 28ft LM27 has been fitted with new Beta25 to replace the skanky Bukh. Based on sound japanese Kubota as used by workmen and farmers round the world. We push big tides in Bristol Channel and some parts of our cruising ground so ability to punch through adverse tides and head seas was thought useful and difference in cost between the 25 and the 20 was small. Whats more they can spec the gearbox to suit existing props etc

Uses less than 1 litre per hour at steady cruise. Our Volvo on slightly bigger boat used nearly 3. And it starts when cold is quiet etc. Cost £6k once fitted. Just motored about 500 miles in our semi round scotland trip of 1500 and blessed the engine daily

I dont know if available in NZ but Beta are very helpful to talk to

 

[penfold]

Beta every time; no idea about whether Beta have a spares distributor in NZ but undoubtedly the agriculture sector will cater well for all Kubota spares, so everything outside the seawater pump and intercooler.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Beta every time; no idea about whether Beta have a spares distributor in NZ but undoubtedly the agriculture sector will cater well for all Kubota spares, so everything outside the seawater pump and intercooler.

I’m not sure ‘every time’ is appropriate. Lots of variables to consider. In our last three boats I’ve rebuilt a Volvo 2040 that gave 17 years of excellent service and fitted Yanmar, Nanni and now a Beta. All three we engines have been excellent. It really depends on what fits and any deals available. We went to the boat show to buy and prices were very competitive.

 

[PhillM]

In my old boat I replaced my MD7A with a Beta 14 and was very happy.

 

[john_morris_uk]

In my old boat I replaced my MD7A with a Beta 14 and was very happy.

I replaced an MD7A with a Nanni and was delighted. We’ve got a Beta now but it’s no better or worse than any of the alternatives. Imho. The OP needs to assess all the variables. It might very well be that a modern Volvo Penta sail drive will be a much simpler fit. The hole in the hull for the sail drive leg is critical.

 

[penfold]

I’m not sure ‘every time’ is appropriate. Lots of variables to consider. In our last three boats I’ve rebuilt a Volvo 2040 that gave 17 years of excellent service and fitted Yanmar, Nanni and now a Beta. All three we engines have been excellent. It really depends on what fits and any deals available. We went to the boat show to buy and prices were very competitive.

Perhaps, but not in this case; the OP gave me a choice of Beta or VP and I have offered my opinion. Beta and Nanni are the same base engine, in the low power category anyway.

 

[Sandy]

After much aggravation and more money than I like to think about having been thrown at it over the last few years, the very old Volvo MD7A on my boat (an Allan Wright designed Nova 28) has finally been condemned. The Volvo agents here in New Zealand have recommended repowering with another Volvo unit, the D1 - 13 or 20 HP unit. I have also been looking at the Beta 14 SD motor. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on these units, or other suggestions? It's a 28-foot yacht, clean design underwater, and the MD7's 12.5 HP seemed to push it along quite adequately. The old saildrive would probably also be too worn-out to fit to the new unit but might have some value as salvage. Is it worth fitting a folding prop at the same time? Needless to say, the whole exercise is going to cost more than the boat is worth, except that without a working engine, a boat is just an expensive hunk of fibreglass occupying an expensive hole in the water. Oh well, that's sailing, I guess!

I'd buy another boat with the engine you want, it will be cheaper than an new engine and you will have loads of spares should anything break.