replacement sails and in mast furling

correct choice of prop.

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1944

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Hi Everyone. I have recently purchassed a Hallberg Rassy 42.
It has in mast furling and on two occasions the sail has jammed as I have tried to unroll it. I have been carefull when rolling it in but maybe I am doing something wrong. Any ideas?? Should I change over to a conventional main??

Also I need to replace the sails. Any tips on good sail makers or what material to go for and problems with uv degrading??

Thanks for any help.

Mike.
 
Hello 1963 and welcome to the forum

I have no experience with inmast furling and so have declined to vote.

I would strongly reccomend a fully battened main with lazy jacks and a stack pack though. I prefer to sail solo and when it is time to drop the main I turn into wind, release the main halyard and watch the sail concertina into the stack pack. I then just zip up the stack pack and job done! Very satisfying

Cameron
 
I have gone from in mast to conventional this season, great success and wish I had done it years ago. The in mast sails have to be cut dead flat and the slightest strech makes them bunch up and jam. There is less to go wrong with conventional, better sail shape and with good gear actually quicker to handle than stiff roller gear. We sail better and I actually enjoy the sailing more. This is in a 33 ft long keel ketch frequently single handed. I thought about fully battened but in the end went for short battened but with lazy jacks and a bag, works a treat!
 
There are two large schools of folk on this forum, both equal in number for and against inmast furling. With regard to converting to convential reefing, it depends on what system you have now and hence how much work is required to change. If you have to buy new sails anyway, now is the time to make the change which is what I did last year.

If you have 'behind the mast', almost like an additional mast riveted to the main, it can be removed and should allow you to hoist a conventional main with sliders. The boom may need some modifications to allow reefing pennants to be set up. I then added a stackpack and lazyjacks and am really happy with the system, and the improvements in the boat's performance.

If you have a more modern system, where the furling is inside the actual mast, you won't have track for conventional slides. However, I believe that if you go for a fully battened main, which is easier to stow and apparently sails better, you will need to add a new track anyway.

I got our sails from Kemps who also did the modification work, except we removed the old furling system ourselves to save the cost of 2 riggers for 2 days. If you speak to Rob Kemp, he will give you all the advice you need (and more!). I am sure he will be at Southampton Boat Show, along with all the others, so maybe worth a visit.

You may choose to stick with the inmast furling and just buy a new main - there are number of hints to getting it to work well - the topping lift was critical on ours, to get the boom at 90degs to the mast.

Hope this helps!
 
Your problem on jamming is probably something simple that you have yet to get familiar with. With my system I have to have the boom slightly below 90 degrees and held in place with the kicker. You need to ensure that the inhaul can run easily so stand at the bottom of the mast and see what sort of tension is caused by the leading blocks, and replace any that are causing friction. I normally pull the sail out by hauling directly on the sail rather than using the outhaul, and once it is outy I have to release the kicker before tightening the outhaul. I have full vertical battens which provide a much better shape.

There are some forceful opinions about junking in/behind mast systems, but this one works for me and how I like to sail. I have some issues with the sail itself, but that is just due to the way it was constructed - suffice to say I wont be using that sailmaker again.
 
I’m really interested in this subject and for a change we have people giving answers with the benefit of experience, (rather than prejudice).

Its mentioned above that the sails have to be cut flat but Talbot, you say that you have vertical battens doesn’t this mean that that sail has been cut to adopt a better shape (i.e. not flat)?
 
Hi 1936,

Congratulations on your new boat; I hope that you are going to take her somewhere pleasant.
I have had inmast furling for over four years now and offer the following thoughts:
You can not change your Selden inmast rig to traditional without a near complete new rig so, unless you have about £15,000 spare, forget it.
Inmast works brilliantly when you have the boom angle correct and the tension on the inhaul/outhaul right. Experiment when tied up to find what is "right" for your rig. It does not take long and and is pretty obvious when you try it.
Very baggy sails cause problems.
If your sail jams in, it can, in my experience, be got out by having one person winching the outhaul while another turns the rachet on the mast. Make sure you turn it the right way! If you see a horizontal crease forming as you wind in you are not doing it right.
One way to get excellent quality sails that fit your rig exactly,at fairly reasonable prices, is to buy Elfstrom sails from HR parts in Sweden BUT only get a quote/order in the quiet period of October/November. Certainly not the cheapest but excellent quality and value.

Good Luck.


David
 
I would be scared rigid of inmast furling. The day it jams in really bad conditions I have no idea how you will get rid of the excess canvas!

With roller furling if that jams you can at least sail round in circles till it is all 'sort of' rolled up but with the main fully out in a blow...........

I cannot believe it is not possible to convert to slab reefing without vast expense. The mast just needs a track and the boom a few U's inserted in the bottom.

To be fair if you are mainly sailing locally and do not intend being at sea beyond a 3 day weather forecast then I should not worry. Most charter boats have in-mast and it works for them because they do not intend being out in bad conditions.

Michael
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would be scared rigid of inmast furling. The day it jams in really bad conditions I have no idea how you will get rid of the excess canvas!

With roller furling if that jams you can at least sail round in circles till it is all 'sort of' rolled up but with the main fully out in a blow...........


[/ QUOTE ] Once when ours jammed - albeit in light airs - I simply bundled all the canvas up at the mast controlled by a crew member easing the outhaul, and lashed it to the mast as high as I could reach. It looked a buggar's muddle but did the job until I could get somebody up the mast.
[ QUOTE ]


I cannot believe it is not possible to convert to slab reefing without vast expense. The mast just needs a track and the boom a few U's inserted in the bottom.


[/ QUOTE ] Agreed, it cost me a couple of hundred but as I said I avoided the cost of 4 rigger days by getting a teenage son who owed me lots of money up the mast!
It depends on what system is in place now and hence how easily it can be modified.
 
Apart from not finding in mast reefing any practical advantage on the couple of boats I have sailed on with it (is not common here because of the heavy conditions), even though it worked on those (at least in the lightish conditions), the thing that really puts me off is that most posts by the supporters seem to include comments along the lines of they work fine as long as the angle of this is right, the tightness of that is correct, this is in line with that, etc, etc.

Personally I would not put up with the safety compromises inferred by those comments in the conditions I am likely to find myself sailing in.

Day sailing in sheltered waters fine though, but not sure I would bother as does not deliver, in its current incarnations, any advantage over safer and better performing methods in my view. So is a pussy cat solution in my book, but not suited to this pussycat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
I have in mast furling but have sailed with both. There are at least 6 overiding advantages of in-mast furling. Firstly, the sail can be set in a few seconds without undoing sailcovers etc. My wife usually does it as it requires no effort at all. Secondly you don't have to consider whether a reef will be necessary as the area can be reduced by any amount at any time without having to come head to wind with the sail flapping. Thirdly, you can balance the rig exactly for the conditions which means no slowing from weather helm. Fourthly, the sail remains with a sheen like new because it is rolled with no creases. Any conventional furled sail loses this finish very quickly unless it is removed every time and rolled up because it creases differently every time. The only proviso, as is stated above, is that you spend time to learn the angle and method of furling without creasing. The fifth advantage is that you never need to go out of the cockpit to attend to the sail. Another advantage is that downwind or in light airs you can have the foot of the sail slack and get much more performance. Finally all the people who have sailed with me say they wish they had changed to inmast furling when they had the chance. It is probable that a few of the people who are critical haven't actually sailed with a well set up in-mast system.
 
The battens allow a bit of shape, but the fact that they have to be capab;e of being rolled up into a confined area means that they have to be as flat as possible. The battens actual constrict that space more, so they are a bit of a trade off!.

Happy for you to come and sea them in action (Solent)
 
I have seen quite a few big boats with it

Scorpione1.jpg
 
lots of megayachts use in-boom systems. Not a good idea if your boom is low cause it substantially increases the weight of the boom and hence the danger in a gybe. It is also more difficult to get any shape in the sail as the foot of the sail is secured to the boom without any means of slacking it off to provide shape.
 
in-boom is a good answer to some problems. and if your boom is high enough, can provide a good answer, for example, it does keep the weight a lot lower than in-mast. You can use (in fact some must use) a rigid vang, so no need for a topping lift. If you get a jam, you can still get the sail down and strap it to the boom. you would normally use full length horizontal battens.

Cant think of any others off hand.
 
My in-mast main is excellent. I have a Maxi Roach vertical batterned main. 5 years old and never had any problems. Great system!!!
 
KISS - keep it simple; standard main, not fully battened (possibly full batten at top), mast sliders; lazyjacks dropping into a sail bag (never used stackpac but could be ok). Slab reefing. All halyards to cockpit.
Cloth - cruising - good dacron, bit better performance pentex, anything else only if you are racing.
Wouldnt touch in mast reefing if you gave me one (well I might but it would be on e-bay pdq)
 
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