Replacement engines

Robg71

Robg71

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After the thread on older diesels, (more specific, the sabre fords,) got me thinking.... If i needed to replace mine, or just fancied better performance, what would you fit.....
Currently a pair of 330 sabre, of 1986 vintage, less than 500 hours.
I got in touch with a company who used to deal with sabres, and they recomend an fpt iveco n60 375 or the 400hp version, as a good swap, weight wise, layout and mounting beeing similar....

Im pretty much certain the performane would be massively improved getting over the hump, as mines a little sluggish. The extra 140bhp would not be sniffed at...

Engine specialist in the forum, what would you recomend, and why???

(just in case i come across any at the right price :)
 
Depends on the pocket for starters, if your lucky you won't need to rebuild those sabres unless you cook them, then you will struggle for parts.

Before you condem your motors hypothetically I'd have a chat with mike Bellamy at lancing marine and golden arrow at shamrock quay they will know what's available to possibly rebuild those motors.

If you went Volvo the d6 would be the answer, even a d4 300 hp version would give a better power to weight ratio than what you have now as I doubt your pulling 330hp now.

Used motors do come on the market, I have for one come across a pair of larger Volvo units that I could put in my boat do older useable motors do come up regularly.

If you were doing a swap on a budget a Volvo 63p would be a good bet at 370hp , remember repowers involve a lot of work and different sizing of water inlets, exhaust hoses, wiring , controls etc the list is endless sometimes.
I have repowered many different makes of boats over the years and I can tell you every one has been different even 2 broom 44s that were only built a year apart had different angle engine beds in.

While your motors are useable there worth a lot more as runners than broke units, sabres would be recycled into the commercial sector for sure as fishermen aren't bothered about oil leaks and smoke on start up.
 
volvopaul said:
Depends on the pocket for starters, if your lucky you won't need to rebuild those sabres unless you cook them, then you will struggle for parts.

Before you condem your motors hypothetically I'd have a chat with mike Bellamy at lancing marine and golden arrow at shamrock quay they will know what's available to possibly rebuild those motors.

If you went Volvo the d6 would be the answer, even a d4 300 hp version would give a better power to weight ratio than what you have now as I doubt your pulling 330hp now.

Used motors do come on the market, I have for one come across a pair of larger Volvo units that I could put in my boat do older useable motors do come up regularly.

If you were doing a swap on a budget a Volvo 63p would be a good bet at 370hp , remember repowers involve a lot of work and different sizing of water inlets, exhaust hoses, wiring , controls etc the list is endless sometimes.
I have repowered many different makes of boats over the years and I can tell you every one has been different even 2 broom 44s that were only built a year apart had different angle engine beds in.

While your motors are useable there worth a lot more as runners than broke units, sabres would be recycled into the commercial sector for sure as fishermen aren't bothered about oil leaks and smoke on start up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that paul.
I realised not a two minute job. And at the moment is all hypothetical.
If it happens it will be over the winter. Just looking at available options.
The other point was my motors are worth something, so is a small return from them. If i blow one, then worthless at a guess.
I may keep my eye out for a pair second hand, but looking at a local company to me, even engines with a couple hundred hours on are not much cheaper than new... I certainly agree that mine wont be producing there rated power. But a new engine with same rating would probably have a fatter torque curve as well, which is probably much more usefull than bhp.... Old adage.. Torque wins races...
I shall drop them a couple of emails tomorrow..
Cheers
Rob
 
Having had a few Iveco's I'd aim for something else. Worked OK at first but developed various signs of wear long before fair expectation.

I'd start by looking for known and proven quality from those who hold the largest market shares in your area, not least because parts and service availability is important (for many years to come).
 
Rebuilds are often not as economical as selling old and buying new, define a rebuild , everyones definition is different from the bare minimum to no cost spared. Generally the former rarely the latter.

Ivecos are not great for support or spare part availability.

Good VP 63P's as i have in my boat are as rare as rocking horse ****, its about 8 years since they were replaced by the D6, so complete units not available new.

Volvo Penta D6 from 320 to 435hp great grunt and performance but electronic engines, these are probably the way to go.
 
Bandit said:
Rebuilds are often not as economical as selling old and buying new, define a rebuild , everyones definition is different from the bare minimum to no cost spared. Generally the former rarely the latter.

Ivecos are not great for support or spare part availability.

Good VP 63P's as i have in my boat are as rare as rocking horse ****, its about 8 years since they were replaced by the D6, so complete units not available new.

Volvo Penta D6 from 320 to 435hp great grunt and performance but electronic engines, these are probably the way to go.
Click to expand...

I imagine that backup with volvo is good, suprised that Iveco not so. Big truck engine manufacturer. Which is probably where they were derived from.
The D6 was and is on my list of possibilites. I have no issue looking at second hand if it saves a bucket load of cash, as long as I'm not buying a load of heartache.... I would sooner buy new if i thought that....

Some one mentioned cummins.... Was it VP.... Bloomin memory...
And also yanmar....
Im hoping i can drop on a good pair at the right price...
It does seem with volvo, people love em or hate em....
 
Robg71 said:
They are on my list to check out
Along with cummins qsb and is it b series....
Click to expand...

I generally approach repowers this way:

How much can I retain?

After engines transmissions are next largest expense. What are your current boxes and ratio? Generally utilising maximum design envelope of existing gearboxes makes life easier.

Your current motors have a rated speed of 2,500 rpm, worth looking at cost impact on your existing stern gear.

Engine brochures can be a minefield, engines sold £ per Hp, tread with care.

PM me if you need assistance.
 
Thats great, thanks for the input.
I think i have probably come to a natural stall... As i dont have the info on what else was fitted by sunseeker when she was built...
But has given me good food for thought.....
I shall have to wait a month till i get back to jersey....
 
If you buy new engines such as volvo penta the package cost of a bobtaile engine without gearbox and an engine and gearbox package means the gearboxes are discounted.

Also you would probably get more second hand for your old engines with gearboxed than as bobtail units, it might make sense to replace engines and gearboxes.
 
As Latestarter says, you gotta check out what you can retain. Check the size and material of your shafts. If they cannot handle the extra torque from the new motors, you will have to change them and then the job is getting very expensive

Remember the limitation for shafts is torque not power. you could have two identical 350hp engines, one with a bigger reduction box and coarser prop, and it will need bigger shafts than the other engine AOTBE because there will be more torque in the shafts

And then there are the propellers. Even if you can keep the shafts you'll likely need a new pair of props with no second hand value to the old ones

If you seek advice from The Engine Sage (Latestarter) please do it on open forum not PM. Because we like reading his stuff :-)
 
So, i need to find out,

Gearbox.... Ratio, and power rating...manufacture
Shaft size...
Prop size...
Inlets/ outlets. Fuel supplies and filters...
Engine weight and dimensions.... Will new ones fit... Are they suitable

What is the limiting factor... Is prop speed the be all and end all...
I imagine as prop sizes go up in diameter, that you must slow them down to avoid cavitation...
Is there a holy grail for max shaft speed versus prop size...
Obviously gearbox, and engine rating all work towards that....
Or am i barkng up the wrong tree :)

Ps... How much is cheap... :)
 
carlton said:
Rob - not trying to piss on your fireworks but you may be better advised/healthier in the wallet by just changing the boat. (I know it's not what you want to hear...)
Click to expand...

I can just imagine Rob reading this at 85m depth, taking in a deep breath of Helium and in true Donald Duck fashion shouting 'what you talking about Carlton':D
 
That's why I said, (I know it's not what you want to hear...) :o

I know many people prefer to re-engine, but when you add up the cost it can often be better to just swap it for another with your choice of engines.

(I'm not making this sound any better, am I...?)
 
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