GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Filtering through Fullers Earth is supposed to remove the dye but I've not tried it. Serious offence if doing it to sell on the "white" diesel but, if just for your own non road use then I doubt anyone would worry.
Removing red dye from your fuel system
- Thread starter Ex-SolentBoy
- Start date
Filtering through Fullers Earth is supposed to remove the dye but I've not tried it. Serious offence if doing it to sell on the "white" diesel but, if just for your own non road use then I doubt anyone would worry.
maby
Well-Known Member
I've heard that - may have a go with a pint of red and a bag of cat litter!
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Plus the tankers that deliver round here and to your farm, what do they carry? Ill bet they havent a dedicated one for red! I will say as well that all the years I have messed with diesels, I have never seen any sign of dye on the componentsI wonder whether the information about red dye being residual is correct ? AFIK, steel does not absorb dye.
If you were a regulatory officer, you would want the public to believe that dye was clingy, wouldn't you ?
Plastic sight pipes, perhaps, but bulk tanks, No. Otherwise all the marinas will have to replace their tankage.
SB, get the tanks emptied (I'll take the red diesel away for a small fee) and get the yard who do the job to certify they have emptied the tanks completely on the invoice.
Stu
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Saw one of those cop shows on TV, irish farmer boy gets stopped, big smirk soon disappeared when the feds went straight for the engine compartment and the bleed screw on the filter! His dummy tank wasnt even checked!Makes me think you need a second 'tank' that the dip stick ends up in
Stu
maby
Well-Known Member
The stories about how difficult it is to clear out the dye are not correct - we've already looked carefully at the technical background to the directive. Marked diesel must be sold with between 6mg/l and 9mg/l of dye added. The lower limit of measurement accuracy for the statutory measurement method is 0.12mg/l - below that, the level of false positives becomes unacceptable. Hence, assuming a worst case of the 9mg/l concentration, you have to dilute the red 75:1 with white to fall below the measurement threashold. Not having tried it, I can't tell you if any colour is still visible at that level but, if you got fined on the strength of visual inspection, you should be able to insist on a laboratory test and have the fine revoked.
In practice, starting with a full tank of red, running it down to about one tenth full and refilling three times over should have you safe - still a pain, I know, but lot less painful than the suggested solution of pumping out and steam cleaning.
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Except, of course, that at the moment there is no facility for refilling with white apart from the fuel can route.
The nearest filling station to a yotpark on the south coast might suddenly find itself doing a roaring trade.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
I dont fill my 35 gall tank three times a year, so totally impractible.
Stu
david_bagshaw
Well-Known Member
When you get a 36000 ltr delivery, ie a full tanker such as you see delivering to a forecourt, it comes in pots , ie section tanks of which the largest is 6000 ltrs.
After delivery, the walls are wet with red diesel, + a very small amount at the bottom, which is less than a table spoon full, as the tank is shaped to ensure it empties. I personally have opened the valve at the bottom to collect the remains and was surprised at the tiny amount left.
would be interesting to know the volume of oil a few molecules thick derived from the walls of a approximately cylindrical tank would be.
Any takers for the challenge ?
aquaplane
Well-Known Member
2 x Pi X r X l = root Sweet FA
DJE
Well-Known Member
Say 2.5m diameter tank, cross sectional area = 4.9 sq. m.
1mm thick film all round, cross sectional area = 0.0079 sq. m.
So about one part in 620 for a 1mm film on the inside of a road tanker. But 1mm is pretty thick, more like paint than deisel. 0.25mm thick would leave about one part in 2500.
G12
Well-Known Member
1mm thick film?? Its diesel, not soup...... it's probably only a few microns thick. Will be thinner than a coat of an average paint for instance.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
But all this is theoretical if you sail from anywhere other than the Solent direct to France.
I'm based in Cardiff. To visit France I have to round Lands End probably stopping en route at Padstow, Penzance and Falmouth. It being a delivery trip I will inevitably use quite a bit of my nice clean tank of white diesel in which case I will have to top up with red in Padstow or Penzance. Both places have fishing / commercial fleets so no way are they going to go white.
TBH I cant see many marinas going white either since only a proportion of boats ever go foreign, and I guess that the proportion amongst the fuel guzzling mobos is even smaller than amongst yotties. So there will continue to be a much greater demand for the cheaper red diesel than for white and few marinas will have dual supplies requiring significant capital expenditure.
Lets face it, this is a genuine civil service c**k up.
I'm based in Cardiff. To visit France I have to round Lands End probably stopping en route at Padstow, Penzance and Falmouth. It being a delivery trip I will inevitably use quite a bit of my nice clean tank of white diesel in which case I will have to top up with red in Padstow or Penzance. Both places have fishing / commercial fleets so no way are they going to go white.
TBH I cant see many marinas going white either since only a proportion of boats ever go foreign, and I guess that the proportion amongst the fuel guzzling mobos is even smaller than amongst yotties. So there will continue to be a much greater demand for the cheaper red diesel than for white and few marinas will have dual supplies requiring significant capital expenditure.
Lets face it, this is a genuine civil service c**k up.
thalassa
Well-Known Member
The fastest way to go down the 'safe' level is indeed to run your tank down to the lowest practical level, and then do a PARTIAL refill, let's say about the same volume as the residual volume. Run that down, again partial refill and repeat the procedure twice. Then fill up completely. It is the fastest way to get rid of the marker with the least amount of fuel.
Slowtack
Well-Known Member
Surely if your very recent fuel receipts are for a quantity of white diesel equal to, or greater than the tank capacity you have good evidence to show compliance?
st599
Well-Known Member
Not really. The offence is having the marker dye in the system. If it's still detectable, which it probably will be after only one fill up, you're guilty.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Let's face it, we should be cleaning the crud out of the tank every couple of years anyway.
Get some 25litre cans, sell the red to those not going foreign.
A Pela oil extractor is good for removing stuff from the tank, fit a bigger bore hose with a valve in it to avoid blockages.
As for needing to refuel twice to get from Wales to France, use the sails!
I suspect the biggest issue may turn out to be people getting air in the fuel when trying to run the tanks low, as many yacht tanks can start sucking air with a fair amount of fuel remaining, particularly in a choppy sea.
Get some 25litre cans, sell the red to those not going foreign.
A Pela oil extractor is good for removing stuff from the tank, fit a bigger bore hose with a valve in it to avoid blockages.
As for needing to refuel twice to get from Wales to France, use the sails!
I suspect the biggest issue may turn out to be people getting air in the fuel when trying to run the tanks low, as many yacht tanks can start sucking air with a fair amount of fuel remaining, particularly in a choppy sea.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
These south coast yotties havent got a clue what its like out in the sticks.
To leave cardiff in a fin heading for lands end you need a decent tide under you. The only place you can sensibly anchor overnight is Lundy but you can only do that in a westerly. But you wont get there in one tide if you are zig zagging against a westerly and with wind over tide chop - 62nm as the crow flies. On the other hand, if you have an easterly, you cant stop there. So unless you are fully crewed to go through the night, you end up waiting for a fairly calm day with a nice spring ebb and motoring. Still likely to take 8 hours but you can at least rest overnight.
Done the trip loads of times and tried all permutations of approach . This is the most practical. Certainly you dont fanny around off north cornwall so the engine tends to get used there as well. How often do you get a nice westerly F4 that conveniently goes south or north as you round Lands End?
lw395
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see what the marinas/fuel berths do.
Has anyone asked them their plans?
I am sure the number of boats that cross the channel at least once a year is enough to keep at least one of the fuel sellers very busy.
Especially this summer, when heading west via Weymouth is off.
One boat I sail on, we are thinking about installing a 'day tank' of about 5 or 8 gallons, for local use we could just put a bit of red in there, or white if heading across. The main tank can be filled in France or CI's at the start of a cruise. Keep it empty through the winter to avoid fuel decay issues. I suspect in the Solent, most people will change to white. A separate tank for the heater might make sense for serious winter users.
Has anyone asked them their plans?
I am sure the number of boats that cross the channel at least once a year is enough to keep at least one of the fuel sellers very busy.
Especially this summer, when heading west via Weymouth is off.
One boat I sail on, we are thinking about installing a 'day tank' of about 5 or 8 gallons, for local use we could just put a bit of red in there, or white if heading across. The main tank can be filled in France or CI's at the start of a cruise. Keep it empty through the winter to avoid fuel decay issues. I suspect in the Solent, most people will change to white. A separate tank for the heater might make sense for serious winter users.
st599
Well-Known Member
I did. They said the RYA had told them red was fine in international waters, therefore wouldn't be changing.
pheran
Well-Known Member
Removing the dye and the marker from red diesel is perfectly straight-forward. All you need to do is to filter the fuel through white (not wholemeal or granary) bread. Takes about two large loaves per gallon. The downside is that the bread costs about 50% more than the duty you save!