Remote engine control

[AntarcticPilot]

I have a tiller steered Moody 31 Mk II fitted with a Volvo Penta 2003 engine. The throttle/gear lever is mounted low down in the cockpit, where it is out of the way, but awkward to use when manoeuvring in tight spaces. There isn't really any alternative location where it could be fitted without making it (even more!) likely to get in the way when working lines etc. Is there any system by which a remote (bluetooth or IR or some such) control could be fitted? It would make berthing etc. much simpler!

 

[maby]

I would like the same - tell me if you find anything! I believe that Scala has spent some time researching this topic but I don't think he came up with any plausible solutions....

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I've seen several all singing, all dancing solutions that are intended to control motorboats with twin engines, bow thrusters, anchor winches and probably all sorts of other things, but I can't see a simple throttle plus forward/reverse system.

 

[Sandy]

Interesting. I have the same issues but have a wheel with pedestal and have thought about moving it there. Looking at the angles that the control wires would need to be bent round it would not be an option.

On the some of the "Keep Turning Left" videos Mr Winter has the throttle in the cockpit under the companionway hatch. While it won't work for me I liked the position.

 

[MoodySabre]

How about a length of pipe that fits snuggly over the morse lever so you can operate it whilst seeing where you are going? Taking all the fun out of it! I do often adjust revs using my foot.

 

[prv]

Once you have the engine and gearbox controlled electronically, it’s not a big leap to drive it with buttons or joysticks wherever you want including on a portable remote. But getting from mechanical to electronic control is the big problem - there are off-the-shelf boxes that drive Morse cables, but they’re remarkably expensive and also bulky enough that they might be challenging to fit in some smaller yachts.

I think the only practical approach would be a hobbyist style creation with an arduino driving two servos mechanically linked to the throttle arm and the gearbox lever. It’s not fundamentally difficult, but you would want to be very sure of your work in order to trust it in a close-quarters manoeuvring situation.

Pete

 

[pvb]

I think the only practical approach would be a hobbyist style creation with an arduino driving two servos mechanically linked to the throttle arm and the gearbox lever. It’s not fundamentally difficult, but you would want to be very sure of your work in order to trust it in a close-quarters manoeuvring situation.

I foresee difficulties!

 

[maby]

I foresee difficulties!

Indeed! When we were planning the purchase of our previous boat, we did look briefly at Jeanneaus with their new-fangled joystick docking system - till we had a long chat with the American owner of an example of such a boat. He explained that Jeanneau implemented their system by making the saildrive complete with propeller rotatable in order to provide the side thrust at the stern that would match the bow thruster. More than that, once they could rotate the saildrive, they took the opportunity to remove the reverse gear - if you want reverse thrust, then systems spin the saildrive through 180 degrees very quickly. In his case, he arrived in his marina, put the throttle in reverse and the saildrive managed to spin 90 degrees before it jammed - apparently his fellow residents were quite amused by the sight of his forty foot Jeanneay pirouetting on the spot in the middle of the fairway!

 

[Plum]

I have a tiller steered Moody 31 Mk II fitted with a Volvo Penta 2003 engine. The throttle/gear lever is mounted low down in the cockpit, where it is out of the way, but awkward to use when manoeuvring in tight spaces. There isn't really any alternative location where it could be fitted without making it (even more!) likely to get in the way when working lines etc. Is there any system by which a remote (bluetooth or IR or some such) control could be fitted? It would make berthing etc. much simpler!

How about fitting a dual station engine control system with the second single lever control mounted inside a locker and operated by an old tillerpilot modified/wired so you can operate and reverse the drive using a remote joystick.

www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[asteven221]

As Plum says the DS control system for a mobo is definitley worth investigating at a fraction of the cost anything electric.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

How about a length of pipe that fits snuggly over the morse lever so you can operate it whilst seeing where you are going? Taking all the fun out of it! I do often adjust revs using my foot.

I thought about that, a piece of 35mm plumbing tubing perhaps. Trouble is the morse control effectively moves through 180+ degrees which is an awfully long throw on a 3’ tube even if the cockpit GRP doesn’t get in the way.

 

[Spyro]

Tried it with your foot?

 

[fisherman]

Seastar, from teleflex. I imagine you could get a remote two lever device such as is used for hi abs and other cranes, worn round the waist.

 

[fisherman]

I asked the local hydraulic people about a remote radio control for a simple winch lever that rotated through 180 deg from full forward to full reverse, they said yes no problem, 50 metre range, single fore/aft toggle lever, worn round the waist. You could drive the boat without being aboard.

 

[prv]

As Plum says the DS control system for a mobo is definitley worth investigating at a fraction of the cost anything electric.

He’s talking about combining the mechanical dual-station control with something electric. Mechanical combiners and cables are probably going to cost a couple of hundred quid each (and you need two for gear and throttle), so add that on to whatever you think the electrical part will cost.

I certainly appreciate the sentiment of keeping manual control available alongside remote, which is presumably the purpose of the dual-station unit. However, if the electronic side for whatever reason rams its input to full-ahead, can you override that with the mechanical lever on the other input? In the standard case when one input is the flybridge and the other the wheelhouse, I believe that both levers need to be in neutral before you can switch stations. Hence you won’t be able to override the rogue input despite the mechanical dual-station system.

Also note that unless you want to use two tillerpilots for gear and throttle, you’re going to need to add the guts of an additional single-lever control, extending at 90º to the axis of the pilot. This contraption and all its large-bend-radius cables is really starting to get pretty bulky now.

As long as you’re just driving a tillerpilot motor back and forth with a joystick, you have non-follow-up control with no feedback beyond the engine revs (do you have a tacho or just sound?) You can’t just put the lever to a familiar place, you have to hold the joystick in the “move forwards” position until you reach the desired revs. Want to drop into neutral? You have to hold it in the “move back” position until you hear the gearbox clunk and then immediately let go before the pilot pulls it onwards into reverse. Heading towards your berth with the engine in tickover astern to scrub off speed? Are you really, or are you in fact in neutral or in tickover ahead and getting an unexpected boost? You have no direct feedback as to which of these is true right now, only the memory of how you moved the lever in the past and you’d better hope that what was happening beneath your feet matches what you thought. No, the more I think about it, the more non-follow-up control of combined gear and throttle seems like a bad idea for manoeuvring.

Put a couple of small actuators right next to the gear and throttle arms, put a programmable controller in between, and you can have sensible controls that work intuitively, with buttons for gears and a slider for the throttle, or a single slider, or a rotary knob, or whatever you find works best.

 

[Neeves]

A mentioned in earlier posts the technology is all there but the focus (for the technology) has been bigger vessels (maybe with more disposable income).

Wireless control of helm and windlass would not be difficult - engine cannot be difficult (as its done on bigger vessels). As fisherman says you could drive the boat (and anchor) without being on board. It a very common item on large commercial vessels where a ship is docked by one man on the bridge wing using, what looks like, a video game console (though last I heard they were wired)

Its all about money.



Sorry its an Australian website, I happen to have a friend with a close involvement, but Dockmate is European (Holland/Belgium I think) and is creating waves in the rather niche market in Oz and US. The competition is Volvo, and I assume others.

http://dockmate.com.au

Jonathan

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Thanks for all - I'm afraid it looks as if there isn't a practical and cost-effective solution. I already operate the control with my foot, but that lacks precision and can be awkward if I need to move round the cockpit, for example to handle lines. The long pipe might work, but I'm pretty sure it would interfere with the tiller - large movements are needed at low speed. The electronic systems all sound too costly, and there would be the problem of finding somewhere to install the kit.

 

[knuterikt]

There are engine control boxes with removable handles, would make the snagging rope a non issue.
Our new Yanmar engine has got electronic throttle control but gearbox is mechanically operated, a fly by wire solutions from Yanmar including an actuator for the gearbox was ridiculously expensive.
Ended up with a nice lever from Volvo in stainless steel.

 

[solent clown]

Thanks for all - I'm afraid it looks as if there isn't a practical and cost-effective solution. I already operate the control with my foot, but that lacks precision and can be awkward if I need to move round the cockpit, for example to handle lines. The long pipe might work, but I'm pretty sure it would interfere with the tiller - large movements are needed at low speed. The electronic systems all sound too costly, and there would be the problem of finding somewhere to install the kit.

I thought about adding a ball and socket arrangement so I could do the same thing remotely with a long bar, pushing it through an angle, bit like a tiller extension but I never pursued it as i didnt think the change from forward to reverse would be easy It would probably need a boot with the foot to get it over the hump as it were. One too many things to go wong.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

How about an engine room slave?