stuartwineberg
Well-Known Member
Digging around my newly acquired old boat I found a fully charged halon extinguisher. Apart from its value as a museum piece how does one get rid of it legally and safely?
Remember Halon? How to get rid of it?
- Thread starter stuartwineberg
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Keep it if in good condition & the gauge shows a good pressure
machone
Well-Known Member
I just got rid of a rusty one at my local Public amenity(dump) at their special dodgy gases/liquids section!
Interesting to note that on a recent short fire fighting course we were told that halon is lethal, probably more so than the fire it is trying to put out. However, it will put out fires well.
Do not use it without an air supply!
Interesting to note that on a recent short fire fighting course we were told that halon is lethal, probably more so than the fire it is trying to put out. However, it will put out fires well.
Do not use it without an air supply!
prv
Well-Known Member
Not my understanding.
I believe you can breathe it at normal firefighting concentrations, though it's likely to give you a headache so breathing apparatus should be provided in places that use it. But if you don't get to the BA it won't kill you, unlike the CO2 that often replaced it.
Pete
winsbury
Well-Known Member
When I was a mainframe computer operator our computer rooms had massive halon systems - these were double knock alarm systems that warned with a klaxon then bell and strobe lights just in case you didn't hear those for 30 seconds after fire detection prior to the Halon release to give us time (just) to get out of the room - During our training we were told in no uncertain terms that there are very serious consequences of breathing it as it combines with oxygen so if you breathe enough it is lethal, similar death to CO poisoning, akin to drowning as breathing wouldn't revive you. Re-entering the room wasn't allowed until the massive ventilation systems had turned over the air in the room several times with fresh air and the A/C plant had been isolated to prevent recycling of atmosphere. There are other reasons to leave promptly too - deafening & confusing noise, rapid temperature change, reduced visibility from fogging & flying debris etc, none of which meant I ever hung around when the alarm went off ( for testing usually ) so thankfully had no first hand experience of being in the room when it went off. Personally I would not use it on a boat - although less dramatic than the huge systems above, in the confined space it could mean high concentrations where its difficult to vent and a high probability of breathing it while tackling the fire - certainly not worth saving £20 - £30 or so replacing it with a modern extinguishing solution instead.
prv
Well-Known Member
I don't think the reason some people want to keep them is down to cost - rather that they are more effective than the standard alternatives. Hence they're still allowed on aeroplanes, and possibly tanks although I'm not sure about that. They were 12 years ago...
Pete
jwilson
Well-Known Member
I was involved in testing small fire extinguishers about 40 years ago, tested various sorts in controlled conditions to put out various fires, including petrol, synthetic fabrics, upholstery foam (not usually fireproof in those days) etc. Halon was by far the fastest and most effective on almost every fire type. Dry powder was about the worst, and unbelievably messy. I too would be tempted to keep one that was in good nick.
alteredoutlook
Well-Known Member
Aircraft commonly use BCF fire extinguishers - which is still Halon - although cabin crew are encouraged to wear breathing apparatus - better a fire out and a few people with breathing problems than a plane burning brightly!
testmonkey
Well-Known Member
there is no doubt about Halon being the best and most effective fire extinguisher for the purpose of engine room application. But if that would be the only argument we would still use arsenic as biocide in antifouling paint... Safety and environmental concerns dictated to move on to CO2
stuartwineberg
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the replies especially relating to taking it to a specials area of the tip. I am surprised the fact that Halon has been illegal to own or use since December 2003 hasnt come up. The replies led me to do some Googling and this from the Chubb site
Halon Fire Extinguishers are now banned. Portable Halon 1211 (BCF) extinguishers have been banned because of the ozone depleting properties of the gas, however many thousands are likely to still exist across a whole range of businesses and in the public sector.
Business Users:
Please call Chubb Fire on 0800 32 1666 to arrange safe disposal of your halon extinguishers.
Domestic Users:
Your local amenity centre should take in old Halon Fire Extinguishers, and then Chubb will arrange a bulk collection. Any problems, call the Halon hotline on 0800 01 01 06 for more advice.
EC Directive E3093/94 states that except for essential users, since December 2002, Halon fire extinguishers cannot be serviced or refilled if used and they must have been removed and properly disposed of since December 2003.
Halon Fire Extinguishers are now banned. Portable Halon 1211 (BCF) extinguishers have been banned because of the ozone depleting properties of the gas, however many thousands are likely to still exist across a whole range of businesses and in the public sector.
Business Users:
Please call Chubb Fire on 0800 32 1666 to arrange safe disposal of your halon extinguishers.
Domestic Users:
Your local amenity centre should take in old Halon Fire Extinguishers, and then Chubb will arrange a bulk collection. Any problems, call the Halon hotline on 0800 01 01 06 for more advice.
EC Directive E3093/94 states that except for essential users, since December 2002, Halon fire extinguishers cannot be serviced or refilled if used and they must have been removed and properly disposed of since December 2003.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
speeding is Illegal as well & smoking in public buildings
cryan
Well-Known Member
Is it illegal to own? It is illegal to buy or sell but it was my understanding that when the legislation changed you were allowed to keep what you had but could not replace it. Just before the rule change, Maersk shipping apparently bought up the world supply of the stuff to keep their systems going as many of their ships had bulk Halon rather than bulk CO2. I was told on the several Merchant Navy fire fighting courses I completed that BCF/Halon was safer for humans than CO2 and was safely breathable up to a certain level.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
I still have Halon in my engine space, didnt know I had, but when I checked my CO2 cylinder?? found it to be 1301 halon. As it's are in excellent condition and still showing no leakage/rusting, I cleaned and re-fitted it, also have a Halon re-placement one in there. I also have two handheld Halon extinguishers, if they show signs of rusting/deterioration I will dispose of them, properly.
But, halon is an excellent extiguishant and still used in aircraft and armoured vehicles. so I'll keep mine for now. dry powder for an engine space is a nightmare. Halon re-placement only for me.
But, halon is an excellent extiguishant and still used in aircraft and armoured vehicles. so I'll keep mine for now. dry powder for an engine space is a nightmare. Halon re-placement only for me.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32009R1005:EN:NOT
Article 6.2 REQUIRES the decommissioning of halon based fire extinguishers. The exception is in the case of a derogation by a member state; as far as I know no member state has applied for a derogation.
Note also that release of CFCs into the atmosphere is banned. Even if permitted under license, there must be procedures in place to recover the released gas. I don't see how a fire-extinguisher could comply with this requirement.
If you know you have halon in a fire-extinguisher, you are required to decommision the system, and safely dispose of the halon.
Article 6.2 REQUIRES the decommissioning of halon based fire extinguishers. The exception is in the case of a derogation by a member state; as far as I know no member state has applied for a derogation.
Note also that release of CFCs into the atmosphere is banned. Even if permitted under license, there must be procedures in place to recover the released gas. I don't see how a fire-extinguisher could comply with this requirement.
If you know you have halon in a fire-extinguisher, you are required to decommision the system, and safely dispose of the halon.
Cappen Boidseye
Well-Known Member
I remember from fire fighting training many years ago, the recommended technique for use of a BCF extinguisher was to fire it into a room with the fire and then shut the door, it would basicaly remove the oxygen from the air and the fire would die out, as long as you keep the room closed as the hot materials cool down the fire will not re-ignite . I also remember a demo, someone smokes a cigarette and the instructor used a small puff of halon to extinguish the ciggy, just to prove it was safe to use!
I later heard that one problem with the BCF extinguishant is that when exposed to major heat, it breaks down into toxic substances, so that the fire turns it nasty. I am glad it wasn't me smoking that ciggy!
I have a BCF extinguisher in my kitchen, thanks to this forum I now know it would be illegal to actually use it. Great!
By the way. AFFF, BCF and halon, are they the same, similar or totally different chemicals?
I later heard that one problem with the BCF extinguishant is that when exposed to major heat, it breaks down into toxic substances, so that the fire turns it nasty. I am glad it wasn't me smoking that ciggy!
I have a BCF extinguisher in my kitchen, thanks to this forum I now know it would be illegal to actually use it. Great!
By the way. AFFF, BCF and halon, are they the same, similar or totally different chemicals?
Scubadoo
Well-Known Member
You might find issues with your insurance company, when it was banned there were a lot of discussions on here about alternative replacements and insurance cover being invalid. Just a heads-up that you might want to check.
prv
Well-Known Member
I don't know what BCF is, but AFFF stands for Aqueous Film-Forming Foam, not any kind of gas so completely different.
Pete
CreakyDecks
Well-Known Member
If you use it to supplement your "legal" extinguisher and it is not falling apart then I don't see how it can hurt to keep it. I wouldn't like to ever have the situation where I was thinking "I wish I had that old halon extinguisher."
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
BCF - Bromo Chloro Fluoride a pure 'CFC' and also generalised as a 'halon' - awful for the ozone, absolutely brilliant for putting out a fire in an enclosed space.
Seen it knock a fire dead on an Olympus Gas Turbine (Concord Engine) on a Type 42 Destroyer.
The danger of these gases is that they actually burn (pyrolise) around the flame completely cutting the supply of oxygen for the fire to continue. CO2 doesn't do this, so requires a far higher concentration to be as effective. But the pyrolised product is a similar compound to the nerve gas Phosgene.
In the fridge industry it is long known you do not smoke near refrigeration systems, as the refrigerant gases (similar chlorinated fluorocarbons) pyrolise in the burning cigarette en route to the smoker's lungs.
I know it's not PC, but if my boat were on fire my priority would be to get it out, and not some overblown (IMHO) environmental nonsense about the ozone layer. If I ended up in Court then thats a bonus, as the dead are generally excused appearing.
Seen it knock a fire dead on an Olympus Gas Turbine (Concord Engine) on a Type 42 Destroyer.
The danger of these gases is that they actually burn (pyrolise) around the flame completely cutting the supply of oxygen for the fire to continue. CO2 doesn't do this, so requires a far higher concentration to be as effective. But the pyrolised product is a similar compound to the nerve gas Phosgene.
In the fridge industry it is long known you do not smoke near refrigeration systems, as the refrigerant gases (similar chlorinated fluorocarbons) pyrolise in the burning cigarette en route to the smoker's lungs.
I know it's not PC, but if my boat were on fire my priority would be to get it out, and not some overblown (IMHO) environmental nonsense about the ozone layer. If I ended up in Court then thats a bonus, as the dead are generally excused appearing.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
I was told that when visiting a British Gas computer Centre many years ago (when it was a nationalised industry).