Relocating to South Brittany

[LouisBrowne]

I'm thinking of moving my boat to the Morbihan area next year and would be grateful for comments or information about marinas, logistics, costs etc.
The two marinas I'm thinking of are La Roche Bernard and Arzal-Camoel; if anyone can tell me their respective pros and cons it would be very helpful.
Another possibility seems to be a swinging mooring near Saint Goustan which is inexpensive and has the advantage of TGV trains at Auray, but I'd have to lay up elsewhere during the winter.
Any way, all information and comments would be gratefully received.

 

[Sinbad1951]

Hi
My boat has been in Arzal-Camoel for the past 4 seasons. Here are the advantages.

Half the price of U.k. marinas.
Gives access to delightful cruising areas all of which are very accessible.
Its very protected being a mile or so up the river Villaine and behind a damn/lock.
A mixture of nationalities berth there.
The marina is in fresh water thus greatly reduced weed and fouling.
Two very good chandlers adjacent.
Local bar, restaurants (3) and a small shop which does basic food items. For a supermarket you go to Roche Bernard.
Depending on your draft access to the river Villaine can be restricted around low water.
The Morbihan is very close by.
On getting a place there you have a ‘passport’ allocated to you which gives you free berthing in lots and lots of french and british marinas. You do have to book in advance for this freebie to be effective. Easily done via the website.


The disadvantages are subjective and may well be seen as an advantage by others.

Getting there is a logistical nightmare unless you drive. Overnight ferry from Portsmouth to St Malo is a great treat.
Trains only go as near as Redon so you are 20 km from Arzal with baggage/clothes/ropes etc
Flights are now limited to Nante.
The costs of getting to your boat soon diminish the financial advantages of a cheap mooring.
You can no longer use your boat for a weekend as its too far.
There is a lock just before the marina. This lock is somewhat unusual as it seen by french tourists as a source of great amusement to watch the boaty people smash their boats up on the way in/out. The lockmasters therefore have a permanent audience and some tend to play to this audience. You will be shouted at! During the summer the lock is crowded. Out of season it is much easier to use which must be a huge disappointment to the onlookers.
Covid has played havoc with ferries. You can no longer travel as a foot passenger so you are restricted to a vehicle.
If you only visit occasionally you need someone to look after your boat. This is to prevent/reduce algae unless you want to spend your week of intended sailing, cleaning.
If you dont have any French language it can be a bit daunting at first.

It is most likely that there are berths available both in the Arzal marina and across the other side of the river on the Camoel side due to fewer boats being in the water due to covid.

Roche Bernard is quite “British” so depends on whether you want to feel french or English.
Town is very ‘Arty’. Its a steep climb from the marina to town so the attractiveness of this will depend on your age/mobility.
Its a tourist town and a very nice one which presumably is why the viking Bernard drew his longboat to a halt here. He could see potential!

 

[Lucky Duck]

There is a lock just before the marina. This lock is somewhat unusual as it seen by french tourists as a source of great amusement to watch the boaty people smash their boats up on the way in/out. The lockmasters therefore have a permanent audience and some tend to play to this audience. You will be shouted at! During the summer the lock is crowded. Out of season it is much easier to use which must be a huge disappointment to the onlookers.

Gongoozler - Wikipedia

 

[Poignard]

When I was thinking of moving my boat to Lah Roche Bernard someone described it to me as "Nice, but a bit blue-ensigny"?

 

[Sandy]

I'm thinking of moving my boat to the Morbihan area next year and would be grateful for comments or information about marinas, logistics, costs etc.
The two marinas I'm thinking of are La Roche Bernard and Arzal-Camoel; if anyone can tell me their respective pros and cons it would be very helpful.
Another possibility seems to be a swinging mooring near Saint Goustan which is inexpensive and has the advantage of TGV trains at Auray, but I'd have to lay up elsewhere during the winter.
Any way, all information and comments would be gratefully received.

Are you fully up to speed with the BREXIT rules?

 

[LouisBrowne]

Many thanks for the helpful replies. And for the amusing ones; I have learn a new word.
Sinbad, I believe that dry sailing is an option at Arzal-Camoel which would presumably avoid the need for gardienage. Logistically the quick and cheap route seems to be to fly to Nantes, take the train to Redon and then a taxi to the marina. However it would be helpful to know whether there is a decent supermarket near the marina.
Sandy, thanks for your comment but I'm not sure what you mean by the BREXIT rules. Even if there is a no deal situation, as I understand it, neither VAT nor coming and going between the EU and the UK seem to present any major problems; am I missing something.

 

[Sinbad1951]

No supermarket anywhere near the marina but you can of course take your boat upriver to Roche Bernard for the shop or head for one of the freebie marinas relatively close by, eg Vannes.
Redon to Arzal by taxi is very expensive. Mr Google will give you prices.
Dry sailing is an option although something I never considered due to being uncomfortable with others moving my long keeled cantankerous boat. However you have to give notice for in/outs so forget any spontaneous weekend sailing.

 

[Tiderace]

We kept our previous boat in La Roche Bernard a few summers ago. Easy enought to get to, just an expensive taxi ride from the airport. Town and area is lovely, and as said there are dry sail options around, have a search as there is another thread on this not that long ago.

As to La Roche Bernard, as a visitor we wont be back anytime soon. All they did was continually move our boat and inevitably damaged it. They did the usual french shrug and I didnt pay them the balance of the fees in return, as that contributed to, but didnt fully cover repairing the damage!!

It migth be different as a permenant residence I dont know. It is however very well protected there.

 

[RupertW]

Why so you think VAT will present no problems?

If you get the boat over there before December and intend never to bring it back then no problem of course.Or if you leave it until after December then plan to bring it back within 3 years I suppose.

 

[RobbieW]

Why so you think VAT will present no problems?

If you get the boat over there before December and intend never to bring it back then no problem of course.Or if you leave it until after December then plan to bring it back within 3 years I suppose.

...and then there's the spectre of 90/180

 

[Tiderace]

VAT could well become an big issue, not only affecting buying and selling but UK owners outside Uk waters.

Hopefully this will get resolved but HMRC are involved so who knows!

UK boat owners left stranded in Europe and leisure marine industry faces turmoil due to Government inaction

 

[LouisBrowne]

Many thanks for your posts.
I have to admit that I had only considered VAT from the point of view of French TVA, not from the point of view of bringing the boat back to the UK. However, if I understand the RYA article correctly, even if the boat were based in France for the long term, UK VAT would be avoided on return if I visited the UK periodically which, from Brittany, is not too hard.

 

[[178529]]

Our house is near La Trinite, unfortunately the boat is still on the East Coast for now but will bring it over in a couple of years. Saint-Goustan is beautiful and wonderful restaurents in the old port area. Quite a way up the river though. If I bring my boat over I will keep it in the marina at La Trinite and wouldrecommend you look at that. To be honest the whole Morbihan area is lovely.

I agree with a lot of what Sinbad says. Even before Covid some of the flights to Brittany were stopping. Flybe's demise stopped the flights to Rennes and now there is pretty much the Ryanair flight to Brest (it might be suspended at the moment).

The ferry to St. Malo is great as Sinbad says, good meal, comfortable, wake up at 7 in the morning with just an hour and a half or so to where you are going. I'm not sure I would keep a boat in the area unless I lived there a fair amount of time. The st. malo ferry is also suspended until March and that leaves Caen which adds an hour or so to the journey.

I've never sailed there and am looking forward to exploring in good time.

 

[[3889]]

Sinbad 1951 sums things up well. Been at Arzal for 7 years and would say the lock is not as bad as reported though one lock keeper is extremely rude in stark contrast to all other personnel at LRB, Arzal and the lock. Price wise, I paid £1200 for an 11m boat versus £8000 in the Hamble, with the added advantage of >150 marinas free for two nights with Passeporte Escale.
Not an easy place to get to though. My current method is Ryanair to Nantes, train to St Nazaire, buses to Camoel. Takes a full day which can be halved by taxi from the airport at an eye-watering €160 for a 60km trip.
In summary you get access to the best summer sailing in Western Europe (equalled only by the Rias Baixas, IMO) at a decent price but not a place for a weekend away for UK sailors.

 

[Graham376]

Many thanks for your posts.
I have to admit that I had only considered VAT from the point of view of French TVA, not from the point of view of bringing the boat back to the UK. However, if I understand the RYA article correctly, even if the boat were based in France for the long term, UK VAT would be avoided on return if I visited the UK periodically which, from Brittany, is not too hard.

If you leave EU/France every 18 months by coming back to the UK, you avoid paying the French and keep UK VAT status. As you say, from Brittany that's not hard to do and it appears you only have to spend one night outside the EU to reset the 18 months clock.

 

[Mark Payne]

We had our boat in Morbihan. She is now back in Hamble. Smashed her back as soon as we were able to travel to France after the lockdowns and travel restrictions lifted earlier in the year. Not being able to travel to the boat during the various and changing Covid rules was causing me a level of anxiety that was unwelcome. I would rather spend my yachting £ on these shores. But admittedly the main issue was access.

 

[Sandy]

Sandy, thanks for your comment but I'm not sure what you mean by the BREXIT rules. Even if there is a no deal situation, as I understand it, neither VAT nor coming and going between the EU and the UK seem to present any major problems; am I missing something.

Personally, I'd find the 90/180 day rule an issue, but you will need to assess the regulations against your personal situation.