Releasing rope wrapped around your prop

[tudorsailor]

On our last trip in Mallorca a large Greman motor boat managed to get the marina's mooring line wrapped around his propeller, and trapped me in my berth. It required a diver to release the rope, for which the motor boat skipper had to pay.
It got me wondering how I would release myself if there was no diver available. I have read about backpack air packs and wondered if they really work. (I cannot find them now on the Net) I have found Powerdive that looks good but very expensive
I do have a rope cutter on my prop but do not know what thickness of line it will deal with

Any thoughts

TudorDoc

 

[oldharry]

I have had it happen twice. Fortunately I can just reach my prop, and the first time was able to free it myself but with great difficulty.

The second time was at sea, and like many others ended up having to be towed in by the RNLI so that we could beach the boat and remove the offending rope.

I wondered after the second time whether to buy a backpack air supply, but would not want to risk my life using it without at least basic training in emergency procedures with the local Sub Aqua Club, and avice from them about the suitability and safety of the equipment.

 

[wooslehunter]

Totally agree. Before you try anything like this get some training. Just a few things:

Take a breath from a dive set at 2m, hold it and surface and you can risk damaging your lungs. The air inside will expand 20% as you surface from 2m.

Don't breath out through your nose into the mask as you go down even to 2m and you can rupture capiliaries in you eyes. This will repair itself but looks very silly for a while.

Don't clear your ears as you descend and it hurts and can damage or even rupture the ear drum.

The second 2 apply while snorkelling as well.

Next, you have the movement of the sea. A few tons of boat bouncing up and down on your head is not too healthy and hard work.

If you do try it then methods depend on the rope and how its wrapped. It can range from as simple as just unwinding it to a solid plastic lump. Poly-prop will melt itself into a solid lump. For cutting through rope a braed knife is good & for the poly-prop lump it's a hacksaw job.

 

[Lakesailor]

How about an access tube above the prop with a cap on it above water level.
A friend has one on a 27 foot cruiser.
Unfortunately it's a steam boat and when he got a warp on his prop it stopped the engine, but he forgot to put the lever in "neutral" to open the cylinder.
When he released the rope the steam pressure started the prop turning and he couldn't move his hand because it was poking out of a 4" tube above the prop. Luckily he only cut his hand quite badly. Could have been a lot worse.

Hole shown by arrow

 

[orizaba]

i've been told that its possible to extend a snorkel pipe and use that as long as the depth is no more than 1-2m ,i havn't tried it out tho.i did find that when checking prop etc in the marina it was hard to get to prop and stay there i ended up
putting rope round under stern to hold me there,i guess tho if you have a long enough bit of rope wrapped round you can hold onto it while you cut it.i also bought a good set of goggles and the snorkle tube with flexi piece from mouth to tube as i found the more rigid type kept trying to lift the mask of.the dive sets you talk about i've seen them for about 3-400 pounds, with i think half hr air.can you get them refilled at a dive shop when empty?

 

[savageseadog]

I'd go along with some caution on the diving front. It's more hazardous than it might appear. If something were to happen under water like your mask being removed or a sudden cut in the air supply could you cope? You won't have anyone with you to get you out of trouble. If you get some stuff round your prop do you know what it is ? There might be invisible monofiliament line etc, you'd need to be absolutely at home in the water and as cool as a cucumber.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd go along with some caution on the diving front. It's more hazardous than it might appear. If something were to happen under water like your mask being removed or a sudden cut in the air supply could you cope? You won't have anyone with you to get you out of trouble. If you get some stuff round your prop do you know what it is ? There might be invisible monofiliament line etc, you'd need to be absolutely at home in the water and as cool as a cucumber.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree wholeheartedly with the caution advice. At prop and keel depths, (1m-2m), if the mask comes off, or air fails, you put the mask back on and clear it, or go to the surface - but without training, would people be cool enough to do this?

In terms of cost and time, it costs about £700 to train to PADI Advanced level, (which isnt actually quite as "advanced" as it sounds), and a couple of weeks for a reasonably smart person), and a basic set of scuba gear would cost about £600, (less with some careful 2nd hand buying).

i would strongly recommend that any sailor do some Scuba training, even if only to cope with emergencies which can be life and death, or very expensive.

With the training, the only real danger is becoming trapped under the boat.

I am PADI Master Scuba trained, (still not as advanced as it sounds), and reckon that, by being able to dive, I have saved at least the cost of any courses I have done plus equipment bought. (change anodes, scrub bottom, check things which would otherwise require a haul out etc.). I can also dive to check the anchor, and have a bit more fun with the boat.

In addition, if you find you like scuba diving, it opens up a whole new theatre for holidays and fun.

 

[longjohnsilver]

I am a diver but almost always just use a mask to go under the boat. Don't need diving equipment. Not difficult to do.

 

[longjohnsilver]

[ QUOTE ]
i've been told that its possible to extend a snorkel pipe and use that as long as the depth is no more than 1-2m ,i havn't tried it out tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't bother, it won't work. Anything more then about 18" and you won't be able to breathe and even if you could you'd be constantly breathing expired air, not good!

 

[chamac]

It can be done with a mask, snorkel and a bread knife. It may take a few "dives". A bicycle helmet or similar is a good idea to guard against getting knocked out by the hull if shes pitching in a sea.

 

[Gin]

Personally as a singlehander I wouldn't go into the water readily.
Secondly as I sail a sailing boat then the engine is something I should be able to do without, at least in many circumstances.

So, my view is that the real imperative is to free the tether so I can resume control; to this end I carry some gardening equipment which I hope will do the trick.

I have a (Wolf brand) extending 2 metre aluminium pole in the cockpit locker plus a ferocious serrated hand pruning tool (same brand) which locks into the handle and which I can use to reach under the boat and saw away at the the tether.

I don't imagine it is a stress free solution but I do expect it it to represent the difference between remaining independent and calling on the RNLI.

Finally, since I don't want to seem a smart arse, I sincerely hope never to have to test my theory, Please God!!!

 

[Searush]

Last time it happened to me (motored over a small mooring buoy) I stopped the engine immediately, had a think & then restarted & put it in reverse for a few revs. Nasty bit of thumping/ knocking as the mooring buoy went back around the shaft a couple of times & then I was free. But as said above, I am a sailing boat so cut & run is a perfectly acceptably alternative. Then beach her (bilge keel) and remove remnants by hand when the tide goes out! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Gin]

I've twice had (yes, careless, I know) an 18mm rope entwined around the shaft between the 'P' bracket and the prop, forced into that gap of about 14mm. It was impossible to unwind and when taken ashore it took a hacksaw to cut through the rope to free it. Had I been caught on a lobster pot or suchlike it would have been a different story perhaps but due to the proximity of the Club trot boat I was assisted on both occasions with no drama.

It was then I decided on the gardening kit!!

 

[BenchHead]

Don't any of you lot who have so much fun mucking about on the blue stuff ever have any fun mucking about in it?? Actually on the East Coast it isn't so blue. I've gone under our boat (23ft Seamaster) on and off the mooring sometimes just for the hell of it and sometimes to free up rope wrapped around the prop when hand cranking our old Volvo in reverse wouldn't do the trick - it is no big deal. I'm not daft enough to try this sailing solo (something I do a lot) but in company ?? I always use a length of weighted rope with the slack taken in on the main winches and pull myself under. I've even cleaned the prop with a wire brush this way. My worst fear on the East Coast is the visibility and the thought of a bloody jellyfish zoning in on my face from a visible range of about two feet - its like Alien undersea /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif There is also something strangely comforting about viewing your boat the way fishes do too ... And, pet gripe, I know the RNLI would prefer you to call them out (I did my Yachtmaster Theory 10 years ago with 3 lifeboat crew + half the guys in my local yard are inshore crew) but ... rope wrapped around prop and no immediate danger or boat with family on board taking water or worse - how great would you feel if the lifeboat wasted precious minutes on their way to you with a fouled prop? Oh yeah - kit = diving mask + quality diving knife and leg sheath. (BTW I'm 54 and reserve the right to drown like a gentleman)

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Many moons ago, I had the misfortune to run over a lobster float on the East Coast of Scotland. I was at the helm, so by popular vote I got to go over the side to sort it out!

First of all, it wasn't very difficult to dive down using a face mask. Visibility was OK, so I could get down there and hack away.

Second, I gained a VERY healthy respect for the cold. The first time I went down, I could climb back into an inflatable. The second time, I struggled and needed a bit of help. The third time, I had to be hauled back in by my brother and my father. Thankfully, there wasn't a fourth time! With the experience behind me there is no way I'd go into the water unless I knew there was strong help to get me back out.

Finally, we did try cutting the rope with a good knife lashed to a pole, and it didn't work. The boat had a long keel with a transom mounted rudder and the the prop was in a fairly small cut-out between rudder and stern-post. So, the knife on a pole trick isn't always appropriate.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

I think I may be able to clear this one up. OK, you can't breathe in and out through the same tube if it's longer than about 18", 'cos you will be "rebreathing" as we in the anaesthetics business call it. However, if you have 2 tubes each with a one way valve at the the end furthest from you, one to allow breathing in and one to allow breathing out, you end up with a crossflow of air moving one way only i.e. fresh air down one tube, into the lungs and stale air out of the other. With this setup, the length of the tubes is of no importance, 'cos a setup like this was used in WW2 to help design lifejackets that would turn an unconsciuos airman or sailor the right way up and to make them unconscious, they (volunteers) were anaesthetised, intubated and thrown in the water! No, really, it's true, during my training, I met one of the guys who helped with the tests. So to summarise, 2 tubes, a couple of one way valves and bob's yer uncle. How you deal with the rope or whatever when you get there, I have no idea!

 

[oldharry]

I am the same - often single handing, which was why i decided to call for assistance rather than risk entering the water with no one else around. On that occasion it wasnt just a rope - it was around 50 feet of fishnet, which ended wound round everything. The prop was just a large ball of nylon net, and by the time the lifeboat arrived the net was thoroughly entangled in the rudder and keels (bilge keeler), everything locked solid with the helm hard over. It took the lifeboat crew some 20 minutes just to cut things away enough to even begin the tow - they used overboard cutting tools on long handles too, rather than enter the water.

Altogether a nasty experience.

Any incident with unmarked or poorly marked fishing gear needs to be reported either to CHIRP, www.chirp.co.uk or the RYA who are recording and reporting such incidents to the authorities and Parliament with a view to reducing risk for pleasure boats from unmarked fishing gear. It is quite important to let them know, as the really have no other way of obtaining information about what is at times a real hazard. It doesnt matter which organisation you report to as they share any reports they receive.

 

[BenchHead]

Absolutely valid point. Many, many moons ago I lived in Newfoundland for 12 months (actually 2 of those months were on the islands of St Pierre and Miquelon) - survival time in the water was minutes so I don't think I'd give it a go there. We also have a friend who lives in Lerwick - he dives but wears a drysuit. At the end of the day its a question of common sense and knowing your limits - but thats what sailing is all about anyway isn't it??

 

[nct1]

Excellent thread everyone !

I often wondered what I would do, has given plenty food for thought.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
Second, I gained a VERY healthy respect for the cold. The first time I went down, I could climb back into an inflatable. The second time, I struggled and needed a bit of help. The third time, I had to be hauled back in by my brother and my father. Thankfully, there wasn't a fourth time! With the experience behind me there is no way I'd go into the water unless I knew there was strong help to get me back out.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a wet suit and scuba gear, (and training), you wouldnt have been anywhere near as cold, and would only have gone in once.

Not trying to be smug, but it is a valuable skill, and handy equipment.