Relative newbie - advice on small yachts / gaining more experience, etc

Lots of good advise so far and along with Seajets advise on the Anderson 22 you would have to consider the Hurley 22. Same size, well thought of yacht with several Atlantic and 1 Pacific crossings to her credit. A well found boat at 22 feet. alittle pinch on accommodation but still able to supply a flushing heads, cooker with an oven and a chart table along with 3 reasonable berths. Its within your size and running cost budget and easily handled single handed without any issues. Loads available from £1000 - £4000. See here for any example ]http://www.hurleyownersassociation.co.uk/pages/forsale.htm
Check out" Gala " then look at the photo gallery on the site for her. It will give you some idea of what they are like.

Best of luck

Philip H 30/90 Magatha
 
lpdsn said:
What he's actually said in his post is that he's been wanting to get back into sailing and after a bit of dinghy sailing is looking to step up to a cruiser where he can do a bit of cruising and sleep on board. I've only offered a suggested alternative to achieve that without buying a boat. I'm sure he's quite capable of ignoring that suggestion on his own if it is not to his taste.

Is there no petty committee position in your local sailing club you can take up to get things out of your system rather than trying to police the postings on this forum?
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Cool down, it was tongue in cheek- no harm meant :encouragement:
 
stevie69p said:
Thanks to all who have replied so far.

I should have added some further info I think...

My plan right now would be to berth at James Watt Dock Marina, in Greenock. (For ease of travel after work, plus cost)
Their pricing policy is cheaper up to 7 metres, and the Horizon comes in at 6.94 it seems. Other options are Ardrossan or Troon but to be honest these are both a bit far from the quick evening sailing in more sheltered waters.

Cruising grounds would be the Firth of Clyde, the various lochs branching off the Clyde, Bute, Arran, etc., possibly round to the west coast once more experienced. Likely to be sailing single handed on evenings, possibly with friend/s as crew on weekends who will have no experience.

Budget for the boat itself is up to around 8k. Ideally I would like something that has a modern interior. And that also sails well, points high. Just from looking at adverts so far, for interior layouts I quite like the Pegasus with its' slide away galley. The Hunter Horizon 23 and 232 are so far my favourite layout with the aft cabin, separate heads, nice modern galley. It looks a well thought out design. The Anderson 22 I had already researched but had ruled out due to being a bit old fashioned internally. On a lower budget I looked at a Pandora 700 that looked to be nicely fitted out, but has a lifting keel... I'm not sure if that would be a requirement. I had also looked at Hunter Sonatas, but again felt the internals to be a bit dated.

I will look into the day skipper theory syllabus, as I think I'm fairly well up to speed on the practical side, apart from anchoring maybe.

In relation to the Hunter Horizon 23, with its' self tacking jib... how does one heave to? Single handed, I think I will find the ability to heave to occasionally important. Ideally I'd want roller reefing / furling headsail, and slab reefing (2 line will be fine) on the main. Is some form of auto helm also needed?

Thanks!
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Lots of good thinking here. A couple of thoughts:

If pointing is important spend 6k on the boat and reserve 2k for brand new sails.

Forget heaving-to with a light boat with self-tacking rig especially if fractional. You will struggle to do it even if you can make the headsail off, such a boat will likely fore-reach at a knot or so still. It's not likely as useful to you as you think anyway, don't put to much weight on being able to do it.
 
xeitosaphil said:
Lots of good advise so far and along with Seajets advise on the Anderson 22 you would have to consider the Hurley 22. Same size, well thought of yacht with several Atlantic and 1 Pacific crossings to her credit. A well found boat at 22 feet. alittle pinch on accommodation but still able to supply a flushing heads, cooker with an oven and a chart table along with 3 reasonable berths. Its within your size and running cost budget and easily handled single handed without any issues. Loads available from £1000 - £4000. See here for any example ]http://www.hurleyownersassociation.co.uk/pages/forsale.htm
Check out" Gala " then look at the photo gallery on the site for her. It will give you some idea of what they are like.

Best of luck

Philip H 30/90 Magatha
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Hurley 22 looks a good contender too. Thanks for the heads-up. That's a cracking example on the owner's association website...
 
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I did what you did when you started, bought an old cheap wee boat, a Bradwell 18 and taught myself. I sailed it from Cumbria to the top of Scotland, out to Stornaway, and almost back, before I buggered it it up off Galloway, but that's a tale for another thread :) I singlehanded over a 1000 of those miles, and I found heaving to the greatest asset ever for a singlehander. A lot of time with some wind and sea, if I couldn't heave to, I couldn't get the main up, and getting it down would have been exciting!
I don't have an autohelm mind, but they do break sometimes.
Heaving too, midships cleats, really wide stable pee bottle, these are the three most useful things to me singlehabding.
( if I had one connected instead of stuffed down a bunk, I would prob add autohelm :) )

Don't dismiss a lifting keel, particularly if you go round to the west coast, it can get you into those last little berths that all the big boats can't fit into, in kyleakin recently there was ONE space on the pontoon, in 1m of water right by the steps, just lifted the keel and slid in nicely. Also lets you into drying harbours, assuming it can take the ground retracted, don't think they all can.

As for the Hurley, you might find a 24/70 can be had for a similar price, with presumably more space. I was looking at some a few months ago online.
 
Two penny worth from me.

Don't be too taken in/attracted by the aft cabins in the Hunters etc. There's a price to pay for those in smaller boats; the boat has to have a big back end and you pay the price in the way it sails. They sail 'ok-ish' (I've sailed one across the channel and back in F5 and above) but some of the others on the list have much better manners.

Sonata would get my vote for single handed sailing in the Clyde. I love those waters and was there last week. You can have years of fun exploring from your intended base.

I agree with whoever said "Save some money for some nice sails." Good sails make a lot of difference.
 
I wonder if now you have been dinghy racing that you might find you want to race occasionally? Cruising is very time consuming as you know. An evening weekday race is very efficient use of time. So I would have a passing look at the local racing fleet to make sure what you buy is compatible.
 
john_morris_uk said:
Sonata would get my vote for single handed sailing in the Clyde. I love those waters and was there last week. You can have years of fun exploring from your intended base.
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Agreed. I had many years of fun on the Clyde in a Westerly Jouster, which is very much like a Sonata but doesn't have the one-design racing potential. It's a good size for the area - it'll go anywhere and get into places which bigger boats can't.

I've just had a look at the James Watt Dock marina berthing prices, and their "small boat" rate goes up to 7m, which includes the Sonata (6.9m LOA) and almost halves berthing costs.
 
Little Grebe said:
The Horizon 23/232 is the Sonata hull with a different deck molding!
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Good point. But I wasn't aware of the Horizon 23/232 being offered with an aft cabin? More of a glorified quarter berth with room for a midget who doesn't suffer from claustrophobia inboard and under the cockpit sole?

Not being rude: they're great boats in many ways.
 
No particular knowledge of either the 23/232 or Sonata but, looking at what's on the market right now, there is a better range of choice in the 23/232 and they are on average newer and tidier than the Sonatas, which look old and tired. I think either is a good choice but as a largely cruising man I'd go for the 232. If a SWMBO is in any way involved in this choice, or the OP harbours any hopes that a SWMBO might take an interest in sailing with him, then the 232 will be the one- although much depends on what's on sale locally of course.
 
bitbaltic said:
No particular knowledge of either the 23/232 or Sonata but, looking at what's on the market right now, there is a better range of choice in the 23/232 and they are on average newer and tidier than the Sonatas, which look old and tired. I think either is a good choice but as a largely cruising man I'd go for the 232. If a SWMBO is in any way involved in this choice, or the OP harbours any hopes that a SWMBO might take an interest in sailing with him, then the 232 will be the one- although much depends on what's on sale locally of course.
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There is no SWMBO, so that's not an issue!

The Horizon is far more contemporary internally than any of the Sonata's that I have looked at online. As far as my research has taken me, it seems the hull is the same except the Horizon has bilge keels. I'd quite like to sit at anchor in a boat that's reasonably roomy and not dingy down below, though I also want a safe seaworthy boat that sails well.... I'm now also considering the Hurley 22; interior not as modern, but seems to be very well regarded. So many choices! I'm in no rush though, so will continue to weigh up the options, an perhaps view a few in the flesh.
 
roblpm said:
I wonder if now you have been dinghy racing that you might find you want to race occasionally? Cruising is very time consuming as you know. An evening weekday race is very efficient use of time. So I would have a passing look at the local racing fleet to make sure what you buy is compatible.
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I may look to race, but it's not in any way my main focus. I find that racing brings out the worst in my temperament, where pottering about on an evening sail after work de-stresses me....
 
stevie69p said:
There is no SWMBO, so that's not an issue!

The Horizon is far more contemporary internally than any of the Sonata's that I have looked at online. As far as my research has taken me, it seems the hull is the same except the Horizon has bilge keels. I'd quite like to sit at anchor in a boat that's reasonably roomy and not dingy down below, though I also want a safe seaworthy boat that sails well.... I'm now also considering the Hurley 22; interior not as modern, but seems to be very well regarded. So many choices! I'm in no rush though, so will continue to weigh up the options, an perhaps view a few in the flesh.
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Have a look at the MG Spring 25. Similar interior to the hunter 232, bigger stern berth, superb sailing boat going to take most of the other suggestions in this thread to the cleaners, several examples fall within your budget. Capable of racing and cruising, very modern-looking. Over the 7m though.
 
I like the look of the MG Spring 25. Pity it's over my self inflicted 7m LOA limit mind you, as it will bump up the berthing charges. Digging around on t'internet, opinion seems divided over 'she's a big dinghy and is tender in a blow', to others 'just reef and she's fine, as she comes with a larger than average sail plan'. I'm just wondering with my level of experience, this might be a bit of a handful?

Accommodation looks ideal. Beamy too. And modern. I might have to consider upping my size limit.
 
stevie69p said:
I like the look of the MG Spring 25. Pity it's over my self inflicted 7m LOA limit mind you, as it will bump up the berthing charges. Digging around on t'internet, opinion seems divided over 'she's a big dinghy and is tender in a blow', to others 'just reef and she's fine, as she comes with a larger than average sail plan'. I'm just wondering with my level of experience, this might be a bit of a handful?

Accommodation looks ideal. Beamy too. And modern. I might have to consider upping my size limit.
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Haven't sailed one but having a similar boat, I'd think both might be true. Big rig and wing keel doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a handful all the time, but you will have to reef it early- but then that tends to apply to any of the small boats you are looking at, becuase they are not heavy enough to carry their full rig into 20kn of wind. Actually I had a lot of similar drivers to you- I wanted a modern-ish boat with decent performance as a priority.

You have more experience than I did when I bought my Hanse, so.... nothing lost by having a look at the MG, especially as you are not in a rush. It might stay with you longer than some of the smaller options will as your sailing progresses.
 
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That is a very good point, as I'm on my 2nd dinghy in the space of a year, soon realising that a flat, open transom dinghy wasn't easy on my knees! I'd quite like to 'buy once, buy right', although that is a long shot realistically. I love the traditional lines of the Folkboat, Contessa, Albin Vega, Invicta et al, but the accommodation lets them down I think. Plus, at this stage anyway, the likelihood of me heading out deliberately in a F6 or above are slim, so a lighter, more modern boat would probably fit just fine. There is a Spring 25 for sale near to me, so I will go and have a look.
 
That Marieholm looks in nice order and a very keen price.

Someone has taken out the thunderbox so it would be a bucket job and that outboard looks sad on the back, there is a well in the lazerette, if the fourstoke will fit, I would flog it and get something in the order of 5hp.

These boats have more deckspace than many 32 footers of the period, lots of stowage and a flap for a galley. The tiny internal accommodation and crouching headroom is offset by two 9ft long berths and a large forward double to boot.

However the only really damming thing about buying one is that its looks and performance spoil you for anything else that comes later.
 
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