Refurb Costs 40 foot fast cruiser

jac

jac

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The forums collective wisdom, experience is called for.

I'm looking for a 40 ish foot fast cruiser, budget to purchase now ideally £52k but could go to £58k. Over the next 6-9 months i have some more funds due totaling around £10k. Beyond that i really need to think about borrowing or hoping i get a good bonus!

One option for us is to buy a slightly tired example that needs some refurb but there are a number of items that i've never had to pay to replace so am guesstimating. Can anyone comment on the following.

Re-engine £8k
Basic Instruments £2500
Radar + chart plotter £2500
Standing Rigging £3500
Main £1500
No1 £1500
Sprayhood £1000
Cockpit enclosure £1500
Strip Interior varnishwork, touch up minor stains, damage etc, Re varnish £2500?????
Replace upholstery 1 v berth 2 double aft cabins, 2 settees. £2000 ?????

Anything major that i may have missed out?
 
Other than knowing the likely cost of typical replacements it is impossible to generalise. You have to look at the individual boat, assess its condition, decide what the end result will look like and then cost the gap. Then add 50-100% to cover the bits you missed and what you find essential to do once you start! If you have a limited budget then figure out what you can do with that amount of money and will you be satisfied with the result.

Most of your estimates are reasonable - probably a bit heavy on rigging, light on sails and upholstery and not enough question marks on refurbishing interior woodwork if paying somebody to do it. much also depends on how much work you do yourself - for example add £1500 to your engine if you pay to have it fitted.
 
I think thats about right Jac.

You might save a bit here and there ( I know a VERY good varnish guy)

We spent £35k on our re-furb, but that was pretty much everything including Anderson self tailing winches, new engine, stern gear, sails , rigging, electronics, FLS, AIS, Radar, plotter, barbq and gas, safety, electric windlass, hull work, seacocks etc.

It's been very, very satisfying and I have the set up I want. Love it and would do it again.
 
We did a minor refit last year 14k but all the work was done by me , new rigging , all new sea cock and fitting , remove and clean all the tanks new solar panels and MPPT , new windlass and chain , new anchor some work on the engine and the Generator as wel as service them , new Brumton prop Remove all the head pipes and replace , some wood work in side , new Bimini, new total winter enclosed , build and fitted a water maker , remove most of the hatches and resealed them , new teak step . New sea water pump , new water pump , that's with the normal stall like stripping all the winchs , servicing the in mast furling , bottom paint , hull out , hard standing and much much more .
4K of that was making the water maker and the prop so not too. Bad but you could add another 100% if I had to get someone to do all the work for me . Ex sample, we was quoted near on 5k for the rigging , we did it for 2k , the winter enclosed 2900 we made it for 600 that a saving of 5k on just two items .
A new water maker , anything thing 4/6 K cost me 2k .
So it does depend how much you can do on how much the end amount will come to.
By the way the work ain't stopped there , still working on it as we go along , just like most boats
 
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You may have underestimated engine, sails, upholstery and cockpit enclosure. Changing an engine costs always escalate with other new bits to match. Rigging should be slightly less. Interior varnishwork anything from £150 in materials DIY to a blank cheque.
 
Hi Jac

I've had some recent quotes that might help. All for 40-42' yachts. Well known suppliers.

Cockpit enclosure £3000.
Sprayhood £1500.

Main and genoa, in:
Good quality Dacron, £5000
Cruising Laminate, £7000
Vector 2 Woven Dyneema, £10,000

All inc VAT.
 
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I would think that you'll be able to get something for your budget that doesn't need a complete re-furb.

There was a pretty nice Bavaria 44 for sale for about £55k that I saw of Facebook recently.
 
Get a few quotes for the big jobs.

Do you really need to re-engine? Indirect cooling engines seem to last a lot longer. I've a 4-cyl 25 year old Yanmar that is still running fine (touch wood). Starts first time.

I think you've under-estimated the sails cost. But you should be able to phase that depending upon how badly-shaped your current sails are.

I paid about the same as your estimate for re-rigging but I suspect I could've got a better deal in England. Less for a sprayhood.

I've also had to splash out to replace both quadrants, the furling gear (ouch) and stack pack. I've only done a partial replacement of the upholstery but your figures seem low for three cabins.

I've also splashed out on a new autopilot and have done a lot on the instruments in the last few years but that's another area where you could ask yourself if you can make do with what you have at the moment for a while.

I also suspect I'll have to start refurbishing the hatches within the next few years. What are yours like?
 
Bobc said:
I would think that you'll be able to get something for your budget that doesn't need a complete re-furb.

There was a pretty nice Bavaria 44 for sale for about £55k that I saw of Facebook recently.
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I would hope so but my requirements seem to be causing issues! I'm looking for:
Around 38-40 feet. Max is 41 on my berth, Have moved from a 36 so suspect less than 36-37 will be too small compared to what we are used to.
Reasonable forecabin as master. 2 other sleeping cabins so that we can separate our children for sleeping.
Ideally straight saloon settees for when I have several farting mates all sleeping on board or for overnight on passage.
Decent windward performer ( i.e. not going backwards against a western solent foul tide)
Decent stowage for 2-3 weeks for 4 ( my two girls ( and wife)) create A LOT of luggage.

Looking around at ones that are in decent condition, I seem to find plenty of ex race boats, e.g. First 40.7 Elan 40 but in reality they may have been flogged and more equipped for racing than cruising so not sure that is the right direction.

I have considered a total refurb on something like a Sigma 38 but forecabin not great and all really tired now. I also spotted a 3 cabin Starlight 39 but asking £1k less than a really tidy 2 cabin version but just has neglect written all over it and would need to be sold for more like £40k than the £60k being asked.
Budget probably not enough ( yet) for a Dufour 40p) and the older ones ( 38 or 41 Classic) look ok but not sure re galley down one side compared to usual J or U and performance is more toward cruiser than fast cruiser I suspect. Also none on the market .
Dehlers I seem to fall between 2 stools. Loads of cheaper 1980's models needing some work and possibly a little small, quite a few well over budget.

SO the refurb if done over next winter is starting to look a reasonable option. the list of things on the OP are not all on one boat but seem fairly common and bigger ticket issues. I really want to have a reasonable idea how much I could pay for a particular boat to still be able to bring it up to a reasonable standard and don't want to be wasting peoples time ( or mine for that matter) going to see boats that might 40% off their asking price to make a refurb viable.

Buyers market my arse if you want something decent!!!!
 
This is a very familiar experience, we started where you are now and ended up somewhere very different as the costs of the refurbishments added up and the compromises of the older boats started to surface.

Really costly items seem to be teak deck refurbs and engine replacements. Next interior refits (done professionally). Then electronics and sails about on a par assuming you don't want to change mast. Then rig and lots of other "smaller" things.

Haha smaller is a relative term.
 
jac said:
Looking around at ones that are in decent condition, I seem to find plenty of ex race boats, e.g. First 40.7 Elan 40 but in reality they may have been flogged and more equipped for racing than cruising so not sure that is the right direction.
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At least with an ex-raceboat you should get some half-decent sails and good deck gear. The condition down below will give you a good picture of how well she's been looked after, but I imagine standing rigging and upholstery replacement would be very likely.

And of course, the ease of detecting issues with the keel attachment is going to be a big issue for a 40.7. I suspect it would be hard to completely trust a survey report that hadn't included dropping the keel for an examination of the floors.
 
Scala said:
This is a very familiar experience, we started where you are now and ended up somewhere very different as the costs of the refurbishments added up and the compromises of the older boats started to surface.

Really costly items seem to be teak deck refurbs and engine replacements. Next interior refits (done professionally). Then electronics and sails about on a par assuming you don't want to change mast. Then rig and lots of other "smaller" things.

Haha smaller is a relative term.
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Yes I should probably add No teak decks to the essentials pile!

Looking at the £30k Sigmas, chucking in £10k for an engine seems reasonable as for a £35k refurb plus say £25k - £30k purchase you're getting a good quality sailing boat for about £60k. The Starlight on the other hand has nominally got an 8 year old engine but has 3000 hours on it and is covered in rust and peeling paint. It may be fine but I take the view that if there is visible neglect and bodging then you can be sure there is invisible neglect and bodging. Also the fact that the original engine was replaced when the boat was 17 years old suggests a history of neglect over multiple years.

It does make the refurb route seem very risky so I would to ensure a fair split of that risk if buying the refurb boat.
 
lpdsn said:
At least with an ex-raceboat you should get some half-decent sails and good deck gear. The condition down below will give you a good picture of how well she's been looked after, but I imagine standing rigging and upholstery replacement would be very likely.

And of course, the ease of detecting issues with the keel attachment is going to be a big issue for a 40.7. I suspect it would be hard to completely trust a survey report that hadn't included dropping the keel for an examination of the floors.
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ALso likely to have decent electronics, been well maintained and many of the domestic systems may be virtually unused.

For something like a 40.7 I might just replace all the keel bolts when she was ashore. I spent £600 get 4 done on previous boat and that included the lift time so would imagine a similar amount to do all if she was ashore anyway. Doesn't help with the survey question of course.
 
jac said:
ALso likely to have decent electronics, been well maintained and many of the domestic systems may be virtually unused.

For something like a 40.7 I might just replace all the keel bolts when she was ashore. I spent £600 get 4 done on previous boat and that included the lift time so would imagine a similar amount to do all if she was ashore anyway. Doesn't help with the survey question of course.
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It's not so much the keel boats themselves as the bonding of the internal frame to the hull which I believe can only be checked by removing the bolts which would otherwise hold them together as though they were properly bonded even if they weren't. You'd need to make sure any surveyor knew specifically what was involved (I'm sure most competent ones do now given the publicity). Although upgrading the washers behind the keel bolts to modern specs wouldn't go amiss either. Not necessarily a big job for a yard as long as you're sure they know how to do it - you could specifically require them to demonstrate they've checked with Beneteau or are already approved. It just means more expense for the survey but you could try to agree something around that and the cost of any repair as part of the offer. The seller may well probably half expect it.
 
Many of the boats mentioned here would make a great fast cruiser.....

However, with the best of intentions and not being sarcastic or questioning your skill at renovation.......

My thoughts would be to take the money you are willing to spend on the "project", the boat cost..... add on to it your proposed budgeted renovation cost..... add a factor of, say, 30% to cover unforseen "problems".....

THEN use that total pot of money to buy a well sorted boat, even if it means you have to go a foot or two smaller.

Then enjoy the endless hours you would have spent "doing up" the boat actually enjoying the sailing!

Just my 2cents! :) :)
 
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