pmagowan
Well-Known Member
You never really know a boat unless you have done significant work on it, IMO. Just buying something off the shelf is fine but things always break at inopportune moments and knowing your boat inside out is handy.
Refurb Costs 40 foot fast cruiser
- Thread starter jac
- Start date
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
There is truth in that, but it can also be done without having to undertake a refit.
To the OP. Add up all your pennies, including refit monies set aside, allow for a modest loan (or not) then look at a nearly new, or new smaller Bavaria or similar. You may be surprised at what you can afford. You will sail more and with less worry if you buy a newer, smaller boat.
I am in the closing stages of a 41' refit, I do not recommend it from a financial perspective or a sailing perspective. I now need to sail my yacht for many years to make the time and money worth it. I could also afford to right off the whole yacht if my situation required that. From the figures you are suggesting there will be good yachts around.
Its not what you think that costs it's what turns up that is the issue. Three examples, a refurbishment of all my windows due to leaks directly resulted in a new galley; conversion to LEDs resulted in new headlining; a wiring tidy up ended up being a partial re-wire and new switch panels. I did not plan for any of these initially. I could go on.
I don't mind, I can afford it, including writing off the whole boat if it came to that i.e. It was never a mill stone round my neck but I resent the lost sailing time.
jac
Well-Known Member
Some good advice here. Realistically i'm not going to have the time to do vast amounts myself and a pro would do a better job. I also don;t want to lose another season so buying something thats sailable from day 1 is probably the way to go!
doris
Well-Known Member
A few years ago a mate, who was looking for a Sigma 38 and fancied a 'project' asked me to go for a sail on one he had found.
I and another experienced friend went out on it. Yes it was a Sigma 38, we know how they sail. In the debrief over lunch after the sail I grabbed a piece of paper and started costing.
£32k was the asking price. I reckoned that if they gave it to him for zero he was would still have been over paying! The then price for a really good one was £50-55k. To get the trialled boat up to that was going to cost about £60k.
I was laughed at initially then the other chap, an experienced boat builder agreed that I was wrong, I was too low in my cost estimates!
The boat was walked away from.
As has been pointed out, in todays markets you will find something ready to go, with little work needed. Vendors of old boats all seem to have hugely over inflated ideas of boat's value.
I and another experienced friend went out on it. Yes it was a Sigma 38, we know how they sail. In the debrief over lunch after the sail I grabbed a piece of paper and started costing.
£32k was the asking price. I reckoned that if they gave it to him for zero he was would still have been over paying! The then price for a really good one was £50-55k. To get the trialled boat up to that was going to cost about £60k.
I was laughed at initially then the other chap, an experienced boat builder agreed that I was wrong, I was too low in my cost estimates!
The boat was walked away from.
As has been pointed out, in todays markets you will find something ready to go, with little work needed. Vendors of old boats all seem to have hugely over inflated ideas of boat's value.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm being naive, but how do you get up to £60K? Presumably this includes both functional (rig, engine) and cosmetic (interior, upholstery) work?
Some people (like me...) just want a safe, functional boat, and aren't looking to bring it back to original condition cosmetically.
Some people (like me...) just want a safe, functional boat, and aren't looking to bring it back to original condition cosmetically.
jac
Well-Known Member
I think you could drop £60k on a sigma 38 fairly easily. Engine £10k, Electronics package, £10k. Standing rigging £4k Main £6k, 3 x headsails £12k New spinnaker and gear £5k, various bits of safety gear £5k. Rewire, £3k. New batteries, smart charger etc £1k Keel bolts and seacocks replaced £1k, and you're up to high £50's without touching the inside. Add in the Lift /yard/mooring time for all this to happen and you'll touch £60k.
And whilst there is nothing wrong at all with having a both which is "lived in" but safe, there is equally nothing wrong with a boat that is up to date with good sails and kept tidy. Life would be boring if we were all the same.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
I'm glad I live in a world where electronics and standing rigging can be done for a quarter of those prices, or less. The brand new main and (roller) jib that came with the boat cost £3k, not £18k. But I suppose my boat is 5ft shorter and a more conservative design.
jac
Well-Known Member
Also depends what you have. Bog standard dacron or an exotic laminate. You could go for the real high end stuff and probably pay double but there is little point having a fast boat then putting cheap sails on it. Also on something like a Sigma, class rules specify 3 x jibs and I suspect that many with more of a performance bent may have a wider range of sails, optimised for different conditions. 3 jibs by definition will cost a lot more than 1. Even if not maintained in class, a No2 sets a lot better than a No1 that has a couple of rolls in it.
Similar with electronics. You could go with the cheapest Nasa Depth and a VHF nothing else and it would cost a couple of hundred. Or the latest integrated N2k kit, a pair of chartplotters, large displays at the mast, broadband radar. Neither is better but I would expect the 2nd set up to enable you to sail the boat closer to her optimum and in more comfort.
doris
Well-Known Member
You left out things like running rigging, windlass, fridge, furling gear ( boat not being kept in class ) floorboards, ORC cat 2 rated pumps, hot water plus whatever I can't remember . None of these unnecessary for offshore cruising.
A functional but neglected school boat becomes an insane money pit within a few years. Hence the very sensible suggestions to buy a nearly new JenBavBen etc. The £12k for headsails was a tad OTT though!
Last edited:
jac
Well-Known Member
Was assuming 3 high end laminate jibs, based on the £10k quoted up thread for a main and Genny tbh, more as an illustration of how dropping £60k could be done.
I am coming back to the idea of getting something that is basically good to go, even if it might need spoiling with something new. If I can find something in the next couple of months that is almost there, then the figures quoted up thread are good info in terms of any upgrades I want to make, perhaps rather than have to make.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
7 years in from buying a boat which was ready to sail bit tired, my list of completed jobs is now over 300, and some of them took days. I have never added up the cost but it must be around the 46k we paid for the boat by now. I like the practical work and getting to know the boat inside and out but I was keen to sail on day one and our routine is to do the jobs which require mains power out of season using the boat as a floating caravan then do most of the work at some nice anchorage where I can swim and sunbathe in between wrapping myself around a holding tank or breathing in gel coat fumes.
So I would buy the best condition you can afford and then as you get bits of money or time and when things break or start annoying you then fix them as you go, I do use professionals when needed but even the yards we trust can charge a lot of money for jobs which don't work at all after a couple of days, e.g. €2k on fixing diesel gauge and sender and a new masthead wind transducer. So you end up either losing sailing time by bringing them back to a yard or fixing them yourself.