refuelling a petrol powered mobo

often carried 6 cans of fuel in the boot of the car. when filling outboard and splilling it it doesnt catch fire. Im sure petrol isnt as explosive as people believe it to be
 
Last edited:
Used to work in a rural garage with a pit. We got told off by local Bobby for the very loud boom that sounded whenever we made the pit safe to work in first thing in the morning. Perhaps tossing a match in was not the approved method! It taught me how explosive a small amount of petrol vapour was.
 
UK-WOOZY said:
Im sure petrol isnt as explosive as people believe it to be
Click to expand...

I am sure a good few people have discovered that it is more explosive than they expected and have the life changing injuries to remind them.

A low flash point, a low LEL, a low ignition temperature and high volatility combined with a vapour density high enough to ensure that it forms a ground hugging cloud, rather than quickly dispersing, all point to something pretty hazardous especially if handled by someone with your approach.

Try telling the folk who lived near Buncefield that petrol is not as explosive as they believed!
 
Last edited:
Pirx said:
VicS,
If you are going to disrespect and swear on The Forum ( and I'd much prefer that you did not ) please do it properly rather than using a weasel word ..........

Using a word that is sort of, but not quite, a swear word is nastier than the real thing: it's a way of saying that you know you should not be doing this but you are going ahead anyway.
Click to expand...

And who are you to go telling long standing respected members of the forum what to do?
 
TSB240 said:
Used to work in a rural garage with a pit. We got told off by local Bobby for the very loud boom that sounded whenever we made the pit safe to work in first thing in the morning. Perhaps tossing a match in was not the approved method! It taught me how explosive a small amount of petrol vapour was.
Click to expand...
A very long time ago, in 1972, I was on an expedition to Spitzbergen (or Svalbard as it is known these days). We disposed of our daily rubbish by burning it in an oil drum, usually ensuring it would burn with a dollop of petrol. We laid a trail of petrol to ignite it. One day when we used a bit TOO much petrol, there was a substantial bang when the petrol in the drum ignited - even at Arctic temperatures (around +5 degrees C in the summer), enough petrol had vapourized to make an explosive mixture. We junior members of the party got a stiff ticking off from the party leader, and were more circumspect in the future!

Petrol is a) very volatile even at low temperatures and b) forms an explosive mixture with air very readily. And while I am sure everyone would be careful about sources of ignition, it only takes one spark - which could easily be static electricity from a nylon shirt or similar.
 
Pirx said:
The post has been edited and "the word" removed: thank you VicS

I don't mind the odd bit of strong language when I'm sailing, but I have two young grandchildren here for the hols who love sailing and often look over my shoulder at the screen ..........
Click to expand...

Virtue signalling at its worst. What do you do when the BBC et al decides its ok to throw in a few swear words etc etc, what about the Internet? Are they old enough to have phones and Tabs?
 
I'm afraid you are a bit stuck here with a petrol powered boat.

As said already the jerry can option is really frowned upon by garages these days.

Also unless the laws have changed you won't get anybody come and deliver to you boat via a pump. I looked at setting this type of thing up at an airfield several years ago and the issue is that petrol cannot be pumped easily as the risk of a static explosion is just so big. This is the reason why road tankers empty into petrol stations by gravity and the stations the,selves have some pretty ex[pensive pumping gear that takes away the risk. So i was unable to setup a mobile petrol service at all.

It can be done on Avgas as Avgas does not explode..drop a match into a puddle of it and yes it will burn but not explode.

So i'm sorry but you are kind of stuck paying massive marina prices...all my mates who had petrol powered boats found this out and sold them in the end.
 
Freebee said:
i have a 400 litre petrol tank on the boat, I don't particularly want to pay inflated marina prices for petrol but realise to collect fuel at a supermarket i am not sure i allowed to fill a 5 gallon jerrycan. has anybody got a smart solution to this??
Click to expand...

Give Hooperman a call, he'll tell you how he does it.

I have just had to empty 200 litres of diesel from a tank, I bought 8 * 25ltr plastic cans from ebay for £48 delivered, they seem fine.
 
UK-WOOZY said:
I'm sure petrol isnt as explosive as people believe it to be
Click to expand...
I had a small amount of out of date petrol to dispose of, so came up with the idea of burning it off. Not being completely stupid, I tested a small amount first. I was very impressed with the bang, ad disposed of the rest another way.
 
Sailorsam101 said:
I'm afraid you are a bit stuck here with a petrol powered boat.

As said already the jerry can option is really frowned upon by garages these days.

Also unless the laws have changed you won't get anybody come and deliver to you boat via a pump. I looked at setting this type of thing up at an airfield several years ago and the issue is that petrol cannot be pumped easily as the risk of a static explosion is just so big. This is the reason why road tankers empty into petrol stations by gravity and the stations the,selves have some pretty ex[pensive pumping gear that takes away the risk. So i was unable to setup a mobile petrol service at all.

It can be done on Avgas as Avgas does not explode..drop a match into a puddle of it and yes it will burn but not explode.

So i'm sorry but you are kind of stuck paying massive marina prices...all my mates who had petrol powered boats found this out and sold them in the end.
Click to expand...

If somebody was delivering petrol to my boat via a truck - would they not gravity drop it the same as on a forecourt...... since my tank will be lower than the quayside ????

The aviation equivalent of Petrol (Avgas) is pumped on airfields and has been for many years, how else did they refuel spitfires in WW2??

next time you see a forecourt pump with its panels off I suggest you have a look, petrol pumps are quite simple electrically driven pumps not really expensive at all.The expensive part is the bulk meter and computer that gives the price and readout.

You are guilty of passing out dangerous misinformation about Avgas .......which is very highly explosive - drop a match in a puddle of Avgas and you will be very lucky if you can walk away with just loss of hair and eyebrows. By the way statically mounted Avgas pumps on airfields are just bog standard forecourt pumps.

Avtur on the other hand is Kerosene based gas turbine fuel and maybe what you are describing.
 
Sorry but you are wrong about avgas. I worked as a flying instructor for several years and have been on several fire brigade training courses all showing how Avgas does not explode but petrol does.

I've seen it with my own eyes..throw a match onto a puddle of avgas and yes it will burn but not explode..petrol will explode. I don't know why but i assure you its the case.

Petrol stations have very complex earthing in place to stop static when pumping petrol..they are not just simple electronic pumps. As to gravity feeds..yes it's possible but not via a 4 inch hose i'd say.

I spent several weeks looking into this trying to setup pumped petrol at the airfield i worked at and it was a no go due to the laws for petrol and relevant costs...avgas has different laws.

Everything we flew was piston powered so not Avtur. yes fumes of avgas may explode but not the actual liquid like petrol does.
 
Last edited:
I have a simple tail about how dangerous AVgas is

At work we were experimenting with a simple valve that operated with Avgas our MD wanted to know if the valve would work with avgas at low temperature so we put only 1/2 litre of 100ll in the fridge in a beaker. so far so good .......but no real thinking done!!!
If we had thought about it we would not have done it. When the thermostat cut out the fridge exploded and turned from a square bench to top fridge into something that resembled a large ball. such was the ferocity of the explosion the fridge travelled several yards across the room catching fire to several desks and chairs and the carpet. The resultant fire took 10 mins to put out fortunately the occupants of the room were unharmed save for `some deposits in their under ware and that is why I for one wont be chucking any matches into buckets of AVgas.. even at low temperature its highly flammable and explodes with a thermostat contact spark deep within the bowels of a fridge..
 
Sailorsam101 said:
"" Petrol stations have very complex earthing in place to stop static when pumping petrol..they are not just simple electronic pumps. As to gravity feeds..yes it's possible but not via a 4 inch hose i'd say.""

its not complex at all you drive a long spike into the ground and then cross bond each joint thoughout the fuel system with a heavy duty cable or strap to ensure total continuity from ground to nozzle , the hoses being wire wound to ensure continuity, which is checked occasionally by meter.

I've done it and its simple . and its the same on airfields except you attach a bond to the aircraft from the bowser.

The same system is used on all airfields no matter what the fuel. It would be the same for LPG as well
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Sailorsam101 said:
Sorry but you are wrong about avgas. I worked as a flying instructor for several years and have been on several fire brigade training courses all showing how Avgas does not explode but petrol does.

I've seen it with my own eyes..throw a match onto a puddle of avgas and yes it will burn but not explode..petrol will explode. I don't know why but i assure you its the case.

Petrol stations have very complex earthing in place to stop static when pumping petrol..they are not just simple electronic pumps. As to gravity feeds..yes it's possible but not via a 4 inch hose i'd say.

I spent several weeks looking into this trying to setup pumped petrol at the airfield i worked at and it was a no go due to the laws for petrol and relevant costs...avgas has different laws.

Everything we flew was piston powered so not Avtur. yes fumes of avgas may explode but not the actual liquid like petrol does.
Click to expand...

I offer this as my evidence- see from 9 minutes when he lights the avgas and then petrol with a match!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nL10C7FSbE
 
Last edited:
Freebee said:
I offer this as my evidence- see from 9 minutes when he lights the avgas and then petrol with a match!!
Click to expand...

I'd treat both with the same caution (and did when lugging avgas around in the back of a battered Transit on the way to race meetings). However, the 100LL avgas in the clip appeared very clearly to ignite more benignly than pump petrol. This is no doubt what you'd expect from its lower vapour pressure: it's less quick to produce a vapour bloom when the lid's taken off the jar. (I suppose the same may be true to some extent of high octane automotive petrols, which use less volatile fractions to inhibit burning.)

What effect this may have on puddles of the two liquids, I've no idea. But they appear to behave in a slighly different fashion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top