Refloating a Bilge keel boat after grounding

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Chris R

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Can anyone advise how a bilge keeler behaves when refloating after grounding
I recently went aground in a fin keeler on a bank at the entrance to chichester harbour on a falling tide. The boat was broadside to the direction of the tide as it grounded and remained that way. While refloating the rear continually bounced on the shingle as the the swell surged resulting in a broken rudder. I have since learned that using the kedge anchor to keep the boat keeled until it was fully afloat would probably have prevented this outcome. The repair was expensive so I am considering changing the boat to a bilge keel to avoid this happening again

My imagination suggests that with a bilge keel the outcome could be either (a the keel digs in and prevents the boat from keeling or b) the boat keels over completely so it’s horizontal to the sea bed
Cheers all
 
Generally with a bilge keel grounding you are left upright with boat sitting on its keels. I suppose the exception to that is if you run aground on the edge of a steeply sided channel which could leave you at all sorts of worryingly unstable angles. Like all sailing mishaps, the most important thing is saving face, and the general thing to do in any grounding is to leap off the boat with your deck brush and commence scrubbing the hull. No passing sailor will be fooled by this of course, but they will acknowledge that you did the right thing in an embarrassing situation.
 
Chris R said:
Can anyone advise how a bilge keeler behaves when refloating after grounding
I recently went aground in a fin keeler on a bank at the entrance to chichester harbour on a falling tide. The boat was broadside to the direction of the tide as it grounded and remained that way. While refloating the rear continually bounced on the shingle as the the swell surged resulting in a broken rudder. I have since learned that using the kedge anchor to keep the boat keeled until it was fully afloat would probably have prevented this outcome. The repair was expensive so I am considering changing the boat to a bilge keel to avoid this happening again

My imagination suggests that with a bilge keel the outcome could be either (a the keel digs in and prevents the boat from keeling or b) the boat keels over completely so it’s horizontal to the sea bed
Cheers all
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What size yacht & why were you unable to get her off
 
fredrussell said:
Generally with a bilge keel grounding you are left upright with boat sitting on its keels. I suppose the exception to that is if you run aground on the edge of a steeply sided channel which could leave you at all sorts of worryingly unstable angles. Like all sailing mishaps, the most important thing is saving face, and the general thing to do in any grounding is to leap off the boat with your deck brush and commence scrubbing the hull. No passing sailor will be fooled by this of course, but they will acknowledge that you did the right thing in an embarrassing situation.
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Exactly. The thing to remember not to go aground at the top of the tide. That is a give-away.

As for going aground in a bilge keeler. Many yachts on drying moorings do this twice a day. Can't see any cause for concern.
 
fredrussell said:
Generally with a bilge keel grounding you are left upright with boat sitting on its keels. I suppose the exception to that is if you run aground on the edge of a steeply sided channel which could leave you at all sorts of worryingly unstable angles. Like all sailing mishaps, the most important thing is saving face, and the general thing to do in any grounding is to leap off the boat with your deck brush and commence scrubbing the hull. No passing sailor will be fooled by this of course, but they will acknowledge that you did the right thing in an embarrassing situation.
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Fred, you forgot to mention the need to artfully drape your ensign over the transom to disguise your yacht's name (and club, if you have one)
 
fredrussell said:
Generally with a bilge keel grounding you are left upright with boat sitting on its keels. I suppose the exception to that is if you run aground on the edge of a steeply sided channel which could leave you at all sorts of worryingly unstable angles. Like all sailing mishaps, the most important thing is saving face, and the general thing to do in any grounding is to leap off the boat with your deck brush and commence scrubbing the hull. No passing sailor will be fooled by this of course, but they will acknowledge that you did the right thing in an embarrassing situation.
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Thanks Fred
Yes I did hear the one about cleaning the hull (which of course I did)
 
You can ground in different ways.
Drying out when you are stationary and the water disappears from under you. If the ground is flat, the no problem. If it slopes, then it depends on the direction of the slope to the keels and the angle of the slope as to what the result might be. If I'm expecting to dry out, I do a couple of circuits and watch the echo sounder to ensure I'm on reasonably flat ground. If I'm in an unknown area, then when I'm pointing in the direction dictated by the disappearing water I drop s shot line either side to check for minimal sideways slope.
Grounding when you are going along a dredged channel and you stray to the side of the channel, then what typically happens is that the leading edge of one of the keels digs in and the boat does a sharp 90 degree turn! Then you need to apply a lot of reverse engine thrust to get yourself off. If it's a lightweight boat, then some jumping up and down on the transom end sometimes helps. If you haven't got the engine power to pull yourself off, then it's a dinghy and kedge anchor job!
Over the years, I've done all of the above ?
 
Mercury Rising said:
Exactly. The thing to remember not to go aground at the top of the tide. That is a give-away.

As for going aground in a bilge keeler. Many yachts on drying moorings do this twice a day. Can't see any cause for concern.
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Cheers for that
I know that bilge keelers regularly and happily ground when they are at the top of a creek but I’m trying to discover how they behave when there is a significant tidal swell as there is in the Chichester entrance
 
LadyInBed said:
You can ground in different ways.
Drying out when you are stationary and the water disappears from under you. If the ground is flat, the no problem. If it slopes, then it depends on the direction of the slope to the keels and the angle of the slope as to what the result might be. If I'm expecting to dry out, I do a couple of circuits and watch the echo sounder to ensure I'm on reasonably flat ground. If I'm in an unknown area, then when I'm pointing in the direction dictated by the disappearing water I drop s shot line either side to check for minimal sideways slope.
Grounding when you are going along a dredged channel and you stray to the side of the channel, then what typically happens is that the leading edge of one of the keels digs in and the boat does a sharp 90 degree turn! Then you need to apply a lot of reverse engine thrust to get yourself off. If it's a lightweight boat, then some jumping up and down on the transom end sometimes helps. If you haven't got the engine power to pull yourself off, then it's a dinghy and kedge anchor job!
Over the years, I've done all of the above ?
Click to expand...
Thanks
This was accidental and occurred when I was side on facing the bank
So the tide dragged the boat sideways over the shingle until the water level got too low
Clearly with a fin keel the boat keels over and gets dragged on its side but is it possible for a bilge keeler to tip over the leading keel if it’s travelling sideways with the keel snagging on the ground
Sorry maybe a bit hard to describe without diagrams
 
Chris R said:
Can anyone advise how a bilge keeler behaves when refloating after grounding
I recently went aground in a fin keeler on a bank at the entrance to chichester harbour on a falling tide. The boat was broadside to the direction of the tide as it grounded and remained that way. While refloating the rear continually bounced on the shingle as the the swell surged resulting in a broken rudder. I have since learned that using the kedge anchor to keep the boat keeled until it was fully afloat would probably have prevented this outcome. The repair was expensive so I am considering changing the boat to a bilge keel to avoid this happening again

My imagination suggests that with a bilge keel the outcome could be either (a the keel digs in and prevents the boat from keeling or b) the boat keels over completely so it’s horizontal to the sea bed
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forums!

Most of us have unfortunately gone aground at some point; it's part of the big learning process. It is also avoidable with research and planning. But contemplating changing your boat to a bilge keeler as a result sounds like panic measures. There's a reason that bilge keelers have virtually disappeared from the new boat market.
 
But in answer to your concern, I've never heard of a bilgey tripping over and capsizing when going aground. Maybe someone has but it must have involved a steeply shelving bank.
 
About the same time a yacht ran aground in Portsmouth Harbour on the large mud flats in the middle of the harbour.
Rnli rescued them. Not sure why they didn't at least try pulling the 27ft yacht back to deeper water first ?
 
When I first got bilged I found the tendency for one keel to stop when it met the side of the channel quite disconcerting. After not too long I realised that it generally meant the boat would be bows up when the water ran out, rather than leaning into the channel at a crazy angle.

As for falling over, Rye is pretty scary, but we didn't.
 
Chris R said:
Cheers for that
I know that bilge keelers regularly and happily ground when they are at the top of a creek but I’m trying to discover how they behave when there is a significant tidal swell as there is in the Chichester entrance
Click to expand...

I once had a bilge keeler on a drying mooring and when refloating in a stiff breeze every passing wave would drop it on the sand with a loud bang and a shudder up the mast. It was quite unpleasant but no harm was done even after several years.
 
There is another grounding/drying out scenario that can give real problems. If you dry out facing the outgoing tide then there is no problem until the tide turns. If there is a fierce rise of tide the boat is facing stern to the oncoming flow and before the boat has enough water to float may be heeled at an acute angle away from the oncoming flow. If you were unlucky enough to also be on a slope then it is possible that the boat could heel over onto its side in just a foot or two of water. I have had a couple of worrying incidents like this both on the Mersey upstream from Liverpool.
 
It does seem to me that OP has had a fright with his grounding disaster. This kind of thing is normal for sailing. I call it on going crisis management. I would implore OP to stick with the boat you have and just learn from mistakes (there will be a lot more) and learn to forgive yourself.
Now I am no expert here sailing in a place with comparatively no tide and bilge keel boats are just not seem. All fin keel and occasionally lift keel.
So think about running aground as you are sailing. What can you do to escape. Know where the sand is and which way to get away. How does this fit with the wind? Are you under engine if so are you going slow enough when hitting to allow reverse out.
I can only speak for my little boat where I run aground embarrassingly often. I do not have an engine. So when running aground under sail I use the sails to induce more heel thus lifting the keel. Important thing is to know which way to escape and especially how to do so hopefully on a broad reach so first thing is to be able to turn the boat bow using a boat hook or spin pole. (never jump in the water if you can avoid it)Then haul in the sails and all crew to the lee ward side to heel the boat. With experience you can escape before anyone else notices.
Now I realise with a 30 fter things are much more difficult. But principles are the same. turn the bow if you can using an anchor or a helpfull power boat to tow it round. Use the sails if you have enough wind plus crew weight to induce heel and use engine plus sail power to head out in the best direction. Of course on a falling tide this needs to be done smartly and on a lee shore again you need to stop waves etc pushing you further aground. If a power boat is able to help he may be able to induce heel by hauling sideways on a halyard.
If she is stuck till high tide you may need to move weight forward to limit grounding of the rudder. The hull will lay on it's side and may be susceptible to being flooded over the low side when tide rises. You may need to seal cabin to stop water getting in until she straightens up. But do lay out an anchor to help haul her off ASAP.
Just a few thoughts perhaps not much help to you. ol'will
 
Someone runs aground in the entrance to Chi harbour at least once a month, if not once a week. It's a valuable lesson about ensuring you look at the chart before going in a harbour. Everyone learns it, and plenty have had a harder lesson than you. Learn from it and carry on. If you enjoy sailing your boat and she suits you, it really isn't a reason to change.

I hate to add to your worries, but if it was a significant bump, I would look for signs of damage to the hull and internal reinforcement around the keel, especially at the forward and aft ends of the keel. A friend ran aground not far from where you did, fortunately on a rising tide, but some fairly expensive damage was discovered when the boat was surveyed a few years later, and that's the only time we could think the damage might have happened.
 
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