"Reefing Point" for Roller Furled Headsail?

[rhumbunctious]

One of the significant drawbacks to a roller furled headsail is the combination of poor sail shape as well as stress on the roller furler when using the sail in a partially furled state, particularly in heavy weather.

I've long been thinking about whether it would be beneficial to add a kind of "storm jib reefing point" in a roller furled headsail which would behave similarly to e.g. an ATN Gale Sail, consisting of two reinforced grommets with a sewn in length of Dyneema between them, and a length of Dyneema the same length as the distance between the grommets, permanently atttached to the top grommet (or even just an extension of the line sewn in to the sail) and clipped to the bottom grommet when not in use. When needed, it would be unclipped from the bottom grommet and attached to a second halyard, and a specially measured Dyneema tack line, of precisely the correct length from deck to grommet, would be attached to the lower grommet, and then the second halyard pulled tight. See diagram (not exactly to scale):

The red line is the sewn-in Dyneema length and the green lines are the pre-measured Dyneema halyard and tack lines.

Obviously, a solution like this wouldn't work for anything other than near the endmost section of the headsail, lest it mess up the shape of the sail, but for "storm jib" functionality, I'm thinking there may be real benefit, as it would be faster/easier to rig than a separate storm jib, would produce a better leading edge, would remove stress from the furler (and rest of the furled sail), and help prevent the furled portion of the sail from unrolling. And if the halyard is also Dyneema, it would collectively provide a second backup forestay, making the entire rig more robust in heavy weather.

Or is this just madness...? ;-)

 

[cliff]

One of the significant drawbacks to a roller furled headsail is the combination of poor sail shape as well as stress on the roller furler when using the sail in a partially furled state, particularly in heavy weather. <snip> Or is this just madness...? ;-)

IMHO - Just Madness

 

[MrCramp]

I wouldn't bother as I don't go out in the conditions where a storm jib might be used. If I did I would maybe furl the genoa and get a method of raiseing my storm jib sorted. If conditions require a storm jib use of the furled genoa would be likely to stretch it.

 

[prv]

The tension you'd need to haul the luff of your new piece of jib into line would be monumental.

Pete

 

[rhumbunctious]

The tension you'd need to haul the luff of your new piece of jib into line would be monumental.

Pete

Hence the use of Spectra line, taking the linear stress, such that the integrated line, tack line, and halyard, if all made from Spectra, and done properly, would serve as a second forestay, adding redundancy and robustness to the rig.

 

[rhumbunctious]

After pondering a bit about how to do the sail modification in the easiest, simplest manner, I think a good solution would be to splice together a loop of Spectra or Dyneema which when folded together is roughly the same length as the distance between where the halyard and tack rope should attach to the headsail (i.e. the reef point), and then sew one half of the loop into the sail, leaving the other half exposed. No grommets. Just the line and perhaps some cloth overlay. Then, one can attach snap shackles at any point along that exposed half of the loop, including down low where easily reached, and when tensioned, the halyard and tack shackles will find the top and bottom apexes (apexii?) of the loop automatically. I.e.

Likewise, when the halyard is eased, the top shackle will drop down to where it is easily grasped, removed, secured, etc.

Simple, lightweight, minimal modification effort, and shouldn't impact performance of the headsail when not in use in any significant way.

I could imagine having 2 or or even 3 such "reef loops" in a headsail, for easy anchoring of the furled sail at each reef point.

And one could also use soft shackles, both for strength and to lessen the amount of heavy hardware possibly whipping about in a blow.

 

[rhumbunctious]

I wouldn't bother as I don't go out in the conditions where a storm jib might be used. If I did I would maybe furl the genoa and get a method of raiseing my storm jib sorted. If conditions require a storm jib use of the furled genoa would be likely to stretch it.

My new jib will be a 10 oz dacron offshore, heavy weather working jib, and I'm thinking about this approach as a kind of "light storm jib" not as a replacement for a "proper" storm jib -- but as something that may work reasonably well for many situations and be both more convenient and faster.

I expect that the jib I'm having made, if mostly furled, with only the small bit left unfurled useful as such a light storm jib, could handle quite a bit of snotty weather without damage or stretching.

And when one is on an open ocean passage, single handed, and **** happens, it often comes down to simply having enough options and alternatives, and this is just one of many that might be put into use.

 

[wotayottie]

You would be much better off buying a laminate sail with a foam luff instead of a Dacron one plus this complicated system.

I found that my cruising laminate 140% headsail with a foam luff when furled still performed well enough for me to be the only boat to make the windward mark in the face of a 40 knot breeze gusting 55.

 

[rhumbunctious]

You would be much better off buying a laminate sail with a foam luff instead of a Dacron one plus this complicated system.

I found that my cruising laminate 140% headsail with a foam luff when furled still performed well enough for me to be the only boat to make the windward mark in the face of a 40 knot breeze gusting 55.

Well, my focus is on durability and longevity, not performance. While I don't disregard performance (even cruising, one wants to eventually *get* somewhere in a reasonable amount of time) I intend for these sails to last a long, long time -- much longer than I'd expect any laminate sail to last.

And in the end, one man's complication is another man's elegant solution ;-)

 

[fishermantwo]

Jessica Watson South of Tasmania with cross cut Dacron headsail. I watched the young lady sail into Sydney a few days later on TV and was impressed by the state of her Doyle sails. Not an ad but it shows how quality gear makes a difference.

 

[simonfraser]

I'd be concerned re the second hard points in your genoa,
The extra head & foot point are either going to wear on seams, or, more likely pull against the position of the furler and tear the sail.

 

[rhumbunctious]

I'd be concerned re the second hard points in your genoa,
The extra head & foot point are either going to wear on seams,

If grommets were used, perhaps, though if I end up doing it with nothing but a loop of Specra or Dyneema line sewn into the sail, I can't see how it would induce any additional wear.

or, more likely pull against the position of the furler and tear the sail.

Not sure I understand the dynamics you're describing. If the reef point is securely drawn tight, just ahead of the furler, and the furler is furled tight, there should be no significant stress between the reef point and the furler.

 

[Seajet]

I have to say I'd go for a separate conventional storm jib, ideally on a purpose fitted wire able to hook onto an eyebolt, like a temporary babystay, otherwise a wire luffed stom jib set flying from aforementioned eyebolt, winched tight in the luff.

I have to smile when people say 'I don't go out in storm jib conditions ' !

The only time I've needed a storm jib in over 40 years sailing, man did I need it !

We set off with a forecast F6 gusting 7 on the nose ( which I wouldn't do nowadays no matter what financial pressure to move ) and soon found ourselves in prolonged squalls of 55 knots, as recorded by TS Royalist who were watching us.

Especially if fitted with a roller headsail, I'd say a boat is fundamentally underequipped if unable to set a meaningful storm jib; a separate sail also allows removing the genoa from the foil to reduce windage, which may become crucial in very strong winds.

 

[fishermantwo]

Not sure I understand the dynamics you're describing. If the reef point is securely drawn tight, just ahead of the furler, and the furler is furled tight, there should be no significant stress between the reef point and the furler.

There is not much stress on an almost completely furled sail either. The maximum stress is from the jib sheets and wind so its basically how much you can crank on. The furler which is opposing this stress is at a ratio of something like 10:1 or more, so in my case with 6mm rope cleated off its 4 tonne opposing the jib sheets. The sail is in contact with itself over a fair distance with no hard points.