Reefing - Genoa and/or main first

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Caladh

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Here's a question that's bugging me. We start to reef our Vic.34 at around 20kn and slip the first reef in the main. She becomes less of a "hand-full" and snorts along nicely. As the wind peps up more we start to roll the genoa. However the word on street seems to be "Always reef the foresail first and and then the main". Have I been doing something wrong or is horses for courses ?
 
Depends on size of your working headsail relative to your main and type of rig.With a fractional rig , main is biggest sail so reduce that, older mast head design rigs had tiny mains and enormous overlapping headsails!

Horses for courses as you already observe. There is no right or wrong .
 
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I think people tend to reef the headsail first because it is easier, can be done from the cockpit etc. If it turns out you still need a reef in the main then you will still have to do it later, in more boisterous conditions.

For this reason, and because our boat sails so well under headsail, we tend to reef the main first. However, because our preferred metod of reefing is to sail the boat hard on the wind on the genoa we will sometimes take in a few rolls of genoa anyway to make this more comfortable. These can be left in or unfurles once the reef is in the main, depending on how you are feeling.

Really it is like so many of these questions - it depends on what suits you, your boat and the circumstances - there is no hard and fast rule.

- W
 
As the owner of an AWB the thought of putting a first reef in at 20kts brings a smile to my face :) My boat starts to misbehave from about 15kts.

I have fond memories of my first sea school experience in a Vic 34.

I think I would respond to the helm, when overpressed, do you get lee or weather helm? Reef whichever sail is responsible.
 
It depends on the rig type and how big your sails are. My boat has masthead rig with a 130% genoa (35 sq.m) and a furling main sail (25sq.m). I usually reef the genoa first.
 
I think you are absolutely right to reef the main first. No doubt the reason for reefing was the excessive weight on the helm, so therefore it makes sense to reef the main first.

Also, the jib is by far the most efficient on a mast head yacht, so keep it going longer before heeling angle means you need to take in more. I would always keep more balance in the jib.

Down wind may be a different story: Running or broad reaching under Jib alone, you will find the boat rolls a lot more. As much main a possible reduces this rolling.
 
With a slab reefing main and a roller genoa I prefer to go for the main first, for the simple reason that as soon as you start reefing the headsail it starts to look like a sack of ****e and pointing suffers. However I did lead all my reefing lines back to the cockpit so the reefing the main is very easy. I really can't see why some people "prefer" to reef the main from the mast...leading everything back has transformed my sailing, especially short handed.

However I'm very much looking forward to taking delivery of a new suit of sails next year complete with foam luff...I'll be very interested to see how the headsail reefing is improved!

On the subject of which, has anyone had any success getting an old headsail and having it converted into a storm jib with some kind of zip/sleeve/lacing so that it fits over a furled genoa?
 
As another AWB owner, we reef the main first at about 15-18kn. If the wind continues up, we'll pull in the Genny a bit before sticking in another reef to the main. We only have 110% Genny.
 
We sail shorthanded so generally the mainsail is the first to get attention, as a trip to the mast in boisterous conditions is to be avoided if at all possible.

If the genny needs more than 40% reduction we would generally roll it away and use the staysail for a better balanced helm.
 
Thanks for all your comments. I can rest easy with the knowledge of the forumites ! I do have to reef at the mast (no problem and less friction) which I can slip in very quickly, it's just that I'd been reading recently that you should always reef the foresail first AND I have a 130% genoa.
 
Racing Tactics?

Caladh said:
Here's a question that's bugging me. We start to reef our Vic.34 at around 20kn and slip the first reef in the main. She becomes less of a "hand-full" and snorts along nicely. As the wind peps up more we start to roll the genoa. However the word on street seems to be "Always reef the foresail first and and then the main". Have I been doing something wrong or is horses for courses ?
Click to expand...

We had a sailmaker giviing a talk and he proposed always reducing the foresail first BUT he was talking in terms of changing genoas on a racing boat so it is a properly set flat blade rather than our rolled and therefore less well shaped sail. Also on a racing boat the laminate main is likely to be possible to flatten and de-power better than cruisers sails. Tackled on the question of reducing a cruising suit of sails he agreed that main first is probably best ( which we always do)
 
Reefing

An interesting thread with no really clear black or white solution like so many other sailing matters! The decision is affected by the rig, the sail sizes, the sort of boat, the reefing arrangements, personal preference and experience. In my case (Sadler 26) with a masthead rig, furling genoa and reef at mast main, I generally put a few wraps on the genoa first and then reef the main while sailing hard on the wind or sometimes will go hove-to depending on the conditions. The boat will only heave-to when the genoa is reefed so that makes that decision easy!
Morgan
 
If what you are doing works OK, it is OK.

I'm used to yachts where, at least upwind, you would normally reduce the headsail first.
But before then, the main would have been flattened with plenty of outhaul and cunningham, and in many cases some mast bend induced by the kicker.
 
Ripster said:
As another AWB owner, we reef the main first at about 15-18kn. If the wind continues up, we'll pull in the Genny a bit before sticking in another reef to the main. We only have 110% Genny.
Click to expand...

+1 (on Jeanneau 32 with 115% genoa)
On previous boat First 29 with 135% genoa, genoa first.
 
Oh horses for courses last boat Trident 24 ALWAYs reef main first or weather helm :eek:.

Present boat TBO if blowing over 12 knots straight to No3 for cruising you can see behind it and good with double reefed main to 28 knots tried and tested :D....

Part of this is lazyness part of this is sail trim. Either way believe it to be our fastest way of sailing ish...

Have carried No1 into 18 knots gained 1/2 a knot then lost that on sail change :o.

Each to own... IF we had roller furling head-sail we would probably be slower all round due to its bad shape.
 
Re Caladh.
Similar boat type (R36), flattener at about 15-20, then 6 rolls in the headsail ( which is relatively high off the deck but big). Mainly cos its biradial so shape is good/ok rolled ...
Then 2 reefs and sails better with staysail set esp with barber hauler to foot of mast, nice and flat.. But short distances I would just go to 12rolls..

Then reef the staysail, with third reef main and replace staysail with no3 my 'lucky' oversized storm jib, barber haul etc..
Then there's a wee proper storm jib and some stout underwear:eek:

My criteria for main or genoa reefing first is whether the boat sails itself upwind, or the vane/ pilot appears to be working too much downwind, if that helps?
 
davidjackson said:
I think I would respond to the helm, when overpressed, do you get lee or weather helm? Reef whichever sail is responsible.
Click to expand...

The initial reefing of a big genoa will "hide away" the portion of the sail that's aft of the mast and so will have the same effect as reefing the main. This might be too simplistic if you're changing slot effects.
 
On Adriana, heavy displacement sloop with big main and smallish headsails, we'd change down from genoa to working jib, then reef the main, then storm jib, then storm jib and trisail - hove-to.
The main had one reef point that halved the sail area - reef in at 20/25k.
Very simple and handy, but easy to be under or over canvassed at times.
 
Reef main or reduce jib

From all the above comments you can see there are many factors involved.
Unless it is very dramatic to any one particular boat most boats do not show change of weather helm because the weather helm at time of needing to reef is produced by heeling. So any reduction will alleviate weather helm.
On boats with roller reefing of jib it is easier to take some turns in when over pressed. But do remember to adjust the jib cars especially when hard on the wind.
When racing or sailing enthusiastically it is much easier to dump the pressure of the main sail with the sheet in gusts. It is not practical to do this with a jib sheet when hard on the wind. So reduce jib as necessary dumping main in gusts. (after flattening the main)
On my boat when racing it is not practical to change hank on jibs unless the spin is up (usually the case) so one might want to reef the main to reduce heeling pressure. But generally we reduce jib first.
good luck olewill
 
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