Reefed Main and rolled genny

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Mings74

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Hi all,
I'm slowly getting used to my first yacht (UFO31). This question may have many answers. I normally reef the main sail at about 15 knots (wind), however if I'm single handed in anything above 12ish knots I use my large (140%) genoa by itself.
Like this I can achieve 5-6 knots and it's a lot safer, I can control it from the cockpit and no going on deck.
Is it better to have a reefed main and rolled up genny?, is there any benefit?. Or is it very much up to how the boat feels on the day?. Just wondered what others do/think? (I'm sure it's very different from boat to boat). Cheers Ming
 
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Is it better to have a reefed main and rolled up genny?, is there any benefit?.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the main (no pun intended) problem with single handing w/o a main and just using the genny is that, if the wind increases significantly to the point where you need to roll away a fair bit of the genny, then you may get lee helm without the main to balance it. Usually only a problem close reaching or close hauled though.
 
I think you have answered your own question.

But of course, the regular adrenalin buzz of single-handedly going to the mast to reef, onto the foredeck to change down headsails, even flying the spinnaker, keeps you on your toes and stops you turning into a lazy sod /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
balance may be better with reefed main and rolled genny .. but that is not the deciding factor - what is your ability to handle and control it.

If you feel safer using genny on it's own - then that's what you do. I often when singlehanded only roll out genny - for exactly the reasons you give. It's all from cockpit.

each person and boat combo is unique ... so don't be afraid of what you system you have - it works and you are confident with it. QED.
 
I've tried all combinations. I am not convinced that my boat needs anything else than the genoa.

I'm now experimenting with a Hoyt boom on the baby stay with a blade jib for self tacking. The jib does seem to like a bit of main sail behind it, while the genny doesn't seem to care.

Each boat has its own characteristics.
 
If you compare CofE of each sail and its' area relations - you'll see why the Genny will often not care ... it's larger and more aft area puts the CofE more aft than a #3 or other smaller foresail. This is also why weatherhelm is not only reduced by reefing / easing main but by also the genny.

A balanced boat is far better if you have the hands to look after it ... I've won races with smaller foresails used than competitors - based on my boat was balanced and easier to get up to speed - (not that Motor sailer I usually feature here .. but the Saaremaa 1/4 tonner I sold not long ago).
 
Your right about balance of course. Maybe my wheelhouse shifts the C of E far enough aft in a blow to not need any mainsail. Anyway, I've never managed to generate lee helm on her, even when trying.
 
Unless you have a very well supported mast,ie twin lowers,sailing with genoa alone is a good way to loose your mast.There was an article on this subject on a french sailing magazine a few years ago.From a balance point of vue you'd be better off with a reefed main and genoa anyway.I had a 30 footer with a rig similar to yours and that's what I used to do.
 
Wow! Is there more strain on the mast with just the genny up, compared with having all the sails up in the same wind?

I do have twin lowers, but I'm told its the cap shrouds that bust first.
 
Yachtsmen in most other countries have been doing this routinely for ages and quite safely. Ocean sailors have been using twin headsail and no main for years.

I used to use genny alone quite often on my old Macwester 26, which was renowned for weatherhelm.

However, my Sadler 29 goes to windward perfectly well on reefed main alone and it saves a lot of effort when short tacking up the river!
 
Generally its better to use both sails but boats do differ a lot. My last boat would struggle to tack with just the genoa. My present boat sails quite well on Genoa alone.

One big advantage of having both sails up when single handing is that you can heave too if needed. by sheeting the foresail hard to windward tieing the tiller down to leeward then adjust the mainsheet until the boat is just creeping slowly ahead. The boat will feel very comfortable like this and enable you to sort out a problem ,make coffee have a dump or whatever /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Unless you have a very well supported mast,ie twin lowers,sailing with genoa alone is a good way to loose your mast

[/ QUOTE ] Applies to boats with sweptback spreaders I believe. An American source for my info IIRC.

Always very careful now as i have swept back spreaders.

Tension in the windward shroud forces the spreader forward, normally that helps to flatten the main but with no main to pull against mast can fail. May apply only to certain designs of rig but i reckon it could well apply to mine!
 
Q-Is it better to have a reefed main and rolled up genny?, is there any benefit?. Or is it very much up to how the boat feels on the day?.

____________________

There is no rule - it's how the dynamics of the boat reveal themselves in different settings of the sails. Experiment and define.

I relate to your question about using the main - there is a school of sailor that seemingly regards it as a badge of honour to hoist the main whatever the circumstances - must optimise the sailplan! (as Mike Peyton might say! )

As a contrarian, I feel no shame in using the forward rig and add the main when I feel it will contribute sufficient to merit the effort of raising it! Join me...

PWG
 
Some years back a lad took his father's Farr727sport (fractional rig) out for a twilight sail.
There were 9 young people on board. He elected to use genoa only. At some stage on the wind in a gust (25 knots) the genoa luffed and was taken aback. There were so many people on board but no one released thee headsail sheet. The boat turned to beam on to the wind jib still aback and lay over to the point of filling with water. Possibly through open front hatch.
All were saved fortunately though 9 mobile phones were lost.

When I came past a little behind him there was the strangest sight of the stern and rudder sticking out of the water and bow straight down. The boat was towed to shallows and recovered next day.

IMHO and for my fractional boat I don't like to sail with anything but both main and jib. (appropriately sized) I sail in fairly confined waters such that tacking is vital. It will always tack positively in the worst of waves and wind with both sails up.

The balance doesn't seem to matter until you are in irons in the middle of a tack. good luck olewill
 
I singlehand and regularly reef the main with no difficulty. I have slab reefing so, from a port tack, I come about so that I'm hove to on starbd tack (which is good in a busy waterway), tighten the topping lift, release main halyard, hook reefing cringle, tighten halyard, tighten reefing line, loosen topping lift and back in the cockpit. Takes just a few minutes and I have a balanced boat. Just make sure that you have a harness and a good point to hook on to. Once you've done it a few times it is really not a problem and allows you to choose the correct sail plan without the tail wagging the dog.
 
It probably is most dependent upon the boat and its type of rig.

On a fractional rig boat, on a gusty day it's inviting disaster, just watch the mast flex under those conditions. Having had a mast fail by fatigue, I know flexing in an aluminium mast is a definite no-no. The mainsail provides most of the sternwards stability for the mast section.

I sail single-handed, about 3000-3800 miles a year, my main has the first 2 reefs as single-liners led back to the cockpit and only for the last 2 reefs do you have to go up to the mast. Designed originally as a single-hander, all the control lines bar those two reefs and the foot outhaul are led back to the cockpit.

Though I do sometimes sail on foresail alone, the boat has increased leeway (up to 15 degrees compared to 2) and I really only use coming it into port to drop the main without motoring.

So in preference I'd always use main alone than genoa, especially as one can get drive out of it tacking through 45 degrees and using the motor.

If raising the main is too daunting a task I'd suggest having a boat with in-mast roller reefing - nearly all boats in the Med are so equipped, with good reason.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wow! Is there more strain on the mast with just the genny up, compared with having all the sails up in the same wind?

I do have twin lowers, but I'm told its the cap shrouds that bust first.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's OK - you get one boat with a sh** set-up that loses a mast and it becomes de-rigour for all. If a boat cannot carry a genny on its own - there is something wrong. If you are carrying a full genny on it's own in a 'blow' YOU are wrong.

Get's even more interesting when you have great big spinnakers pulling on a mast !! Consider that vast majority of boats have backstays .... and lowers will only make a difference with fractional rig not a masthead ... where full weight comes on forestays, cap-shrouds and backstays.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some years back a lad took his father's Farr727sport (fractional rig) out for a twilight sail.
There were 9 young people on board. He elected to use genoa only. At some stage on the wind in a gust (25 knots) the genoa luffed and was taken aback. There were so many people on board but no one released thee headsail sheet. The boat turned to beam on to the wind jib still aback and lay over to the point of filling with water. Possibly through open front hatch.
All were saved fortunately though 9 mobile phones were lost.

When I came past a little behind him there was the strangest sight of the stern and rudder sticking out of the water and bow straight down. The boat was towed to shallows and recovered next day.

IMHO and for my fractional boat I don't like to sail with anything but both main and jib. (appropriately sized) I sail in fairly confined waters such that tacking is vital. It will always tack positively in the worst of waves and wind with both sails up.

The balance doesn't seem to matter until you are in irons in the middle of a tack. good luck olewill

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With due respect - that's not fault of genny or boat - that's prats not releasing sheets.

To others who say some boats don't tack well with genny only - agreed - but thats when the backing sail to push bow through comes into it's own. It's a trick I've used for years to get a tack in lightning fast on the race boat and also to persuade my tub to tack in light airs ... hold genny till it backs and bow starts to speed up it's turn - release and sheet in as she fills on new tack. Practised and you can get it spot on without over-run turn. It will help most reluctant boats to go through wind.
If you have a race crew - like I had - new tack sheet slack is taken up before release from old tack ... giving sheeting an added advantage.
Helps to avoid those 'catches' of clew on stays etc. as well.

But of course everyone knows this trick.
 
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