Reef points...why?

[Greenheart]

Accepting that I'd be single-handing the Osprey a good deal, I sewed a very deep reef into the mainsail soon after buying the boat, and I've regularly used the reef, with elastic sail-ties led through plastic eyelets which I set into five reinforced sailcloth patches, sewn in the sail...and I put in reinforced cringles at luff & leech too.

I was told that the outhaul is very little-used - not a very significant control in the dinghy - one just ties the clew tightly enough to the boom end, and relies on vang and downhaul for real sail-shape & control. But it wasn't till lately that I'd actually tied the clew down that way, and used the outhaul to hook the reef-clew, instead...

...so when today, I found myself suddenly overpowered with the full main up, I was able to release the main halyard, drop the mainsail about six feet, secure the reef's clew with the outhaul, and carry on sailing. In the hectic situation, I didn't stop to thread the sail-ties through the reef-point holes and secure them round the boom...

...but the snug, reefed mainsail set beautifully, held only by the clew. I was pleasantly surprised, and reflected on the laborious work I'd put in, originally sewing the reef-points in and always tying them down before sailing on breezy days...all apparently unnecessary.

So what are (or were) reef points for? Simple slab reefing seems to work far better - even in my hands.

 

[jwilson]

1) tidiness, a bag of sailcloth flapping around looks awful.
2) Income for sailmakers - when someone unreefs and releases tack and clew and all bar one of the reef tie points, then pulls hard on the halliard.

 

[Tomahawk]

Been there.... worn that T shirt..

 

[Keen_Ed]

1) tidiness, a bag of sailcloth flapping around looks awful.

Not only looks awful. Bad for the sail.

 

[prv]

The reef points don't affect the set of the sail above the reef (if they are, you don't have enough tension in the foot from the reef pendant at the clew). Their purpose is to tidy up the slack sailcloth below the reef. This might be more or less necessary depending on the boat.

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

I was told that the outhaul is very little-used - not a very significant control in the dinghy - one just ties the clew tightly enough to the boom end

Dan
On my Phantom dinghy i adjust the clew outhaul a lot. Same in my Squib and my cruiser
Unless your sail is well knackered i would suggest you should do the same to get the best out of it
I am amazed by the number of cruiser sailors who just lash theirs at the start of the season & forget it
I find that it does have a significant effect on sail shape. Plus leaving it tied will only damage the sail. As does leaving the jib halliard tight all season

 

[bbg]

If I read your post correctly you say the reef was held only by the clew, and not the tack. The tack needs to be secured as well. There should be a VERY strong cringle at the tack point for the reef, so you can hook it over a hook or snap it to a shackle, then re-tension the halyard.

Also, if I read your post correctly, you dropped the halyard by six feet. That is a lot for a first reef on a small boat like yours.

Typical reefing setup would be to have a reef line run out through the end of the boom (like your outhaul), up to the reef cringle and then back down and around the boom, (assuming loose-footed main) then tie a bowline around the part of the reef line that is coming down from the cringle. When you reef, the clew of the sail is pulled down to the boom and out to the end of the boom by the reefing line.

 

[Poignard]

Another reason for using reef points is that without them there is a chance of the loose bag of sail under the boom suddenly collecting a lot of water if the boom dips into the sea.

 

[PeterV]

I wanted a reef in my Lark for cruising and I only put in a leech and luff cringle. Once it's windy enough to need a ref in the main you're not worried about adjusting the foot tension so one lashing, holding the foot out tight and down to the boom is sufficient with another to hold the tack down. As you've found the flap at the foot isn't a problem and doesn't need any ties. With any boat the leech should be pulled out tight so that the foot is tight and the reef pennants shouldn't be taking any real weight. The other thing you'll find is that it's very easy single handed to let the sheets fly, lower the halyard and put both lashings on. With reef pennants it takes longer and in strong winds in a dinghy doesn't seem to be worth while.

 

[prv]

The other thing you'll find is that it's very easy single handed to let the sheets fly, lower the halyard and put both lashings on. With reef pennants it takes longer and in strong winds in a dinghy doesn't seem to be worth while.

Huh? Surely it's the same procedure but without the faff of threading lanyards through holes and tying lashings? If you had both tack and clew pendants led through jammers (cam cleats on a dinghy I guess) then it could be two swift pulls and job done.

Pete

 

[PeterV]

By reef pennants I meant ties through holes between the leech and luff, not the leech and luff lashings. You're right of course, these can be rigged already through jammers and will make it quicker,.

 

[snowleopard]

I have eyelets for reef points but have never used them. The reason being that the unused part of the sail sits in a stackpack so there is no need to lash it up to prevent it getting in the way. I have opted for loose-footed sails on the boats I have built over the last 30 years and for them the only purpose of reef points is for tidiness, not sail set. If your sail foot is attached to the boom it is possible that a reef can have some effect in flattening the sail for windward work.

 

[mjcoon]

The reef points don't affect the set of the sail above the reef (if they are, you don't have enough tension in the foot from the reef pendant at the clew). Their purpose is to tidy up the slack sailcloth below the reef. This might be more or less necessary depending on the boat.

Pete

And I was told that they are the only place on a boat to use a reef knot, and that is because the reefing points don't do anything serious!

Mike.

 

[prv]

And I was told that they are the only place on a boat to use a reef knot, and that is because the reefing points don't do anything serious.

On Kindred Spirit I used to do them with a slipped reef knot, like a shoelace bow with only one loop. Secure enough for the job, easy to shake out, and even look rather nice (these were 3-strand line with whipped ends, against a tan sail).

Ariam has a stackpack, so although there are eyelets in the sail, there are no points rigged or used.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Another reason for using reef points is that without them there is a chance of the loose bag of sail under the boom suddenly collecting a lot of water if the boom dips into the sea.

And a good reason for not using them With a bucket under the goose neck it's a great way to get some fresh water midocean when a squall comes over.

 

[dunedin]

Definitely need something holding the front edge of the sail down - then retension the halyard against this

But never used reef points with slab reefing - generally unnecessary

 

[Wansworth]

I reefed the main on a Fireball and got a right dressing down by the class captain....... she was fat as well so never need ed to reef

 

[G12]

Whoever told you that the outhaul is seldom used needs to be ignored. It is a crucial sail control along with the kicker and cunningham.

General rules - Flatten the sail off for going upwind (outhaul on) and ease it off for more power for offwind. Same with the kicker and cunningham - use your leech telltales to adjust the kicker correctly, and use the cunningham to further depower the sail when you need it. The cunningham moves the maximum draft point of the sail forwards and opens the leech when you wind it on.
I know you're not racing or anything but it's worth knowing..... At the very least you can quickly depower the sail if you ever need to.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Here you go... http://www.tuningguides.northsails....es/TuningGuidesOsprey/tabid/9269/Default.aspx Outhaul makes a noticeable difference I can assure you. Basically, sail flattened when there's virtually no wind then, as soon as there's enough wind to fill the sail properly have it as full as you can then progressively flatten it until you need to reef (when you keep it flat but reduce the area). Same applies as you ease off onto a reach as G12 notes above. Cunningham, kicker and outhaul are the simplest trimming controls to flatten the sail, along with the mainsheet and traveller, though to a lesser extent than you'd think intuitively.

 

[Greenheart]

Gentlemen, I thank you all for contributing here, there's enough for me to go back through it and take notes for future reference! Various thoughts come to mind, few relevant...

I sailed yesterday and again today; yesterday I didn't need the reef until I was almost back at the beach; today, in anticipation of westerlies breezing-up, I reefed from the start...

...and I took time to look at just how unnecessary my reef points are, or may be. I can see that having lazyjacks makes reef-points less beneficial than they'd otherwise be - because all the lowered sail sits in a fairly secure bundle along the boom. Starting out with the reef in place is much neater, because I can omit the lower battens, which otherwise stick up making the flaked sail look shockingly sloppy...but fiddling to remove battens whilst afloat (and at such times as I'd urgently want to be reducing sail) isn't my top priority.

My cunningham is lousy - it's just whichever bit of line is lying about spare on the day - and there's no dedicated cleat or hook! Not good. I think I need to raise my boom - my gooseneck is well below the point where the track for the bolt-rope begins; a nasty 'stretch-mark' forms from a couple of feet behind the gooseneck, to the start of the mast track...

...as it is, I also add a second line tied through the cunningham-eyelet then round the mast and back, to keep any tension in the sail along the boom...all botched and butchered...

...so all in all, it's always a surprise to me on reefing, that the remaining sail seems to set so nicely. I suppose that the upper section of most mainsails is relatively flat...so taking in a very deep reef, the section that remains is much less baggy.

BBG, you're right, 6ft of luff is a huge reef for a dinghy mainsail. I made it so big because at the time, I could only get hold of enough bits (thimbles, etc) to add a single reef, and I wanted to be able to single-hand in breezy weather - and as she is, I can carry the full 150 sq ft in a force 2, then put in the reef while keeping the genoa up as the wind rises (100sq ft), and finally roll the genoa at a moment's notice when it's still too much...leaving the halved mainsail, only about 55sq ft, but quite enough in a breeze until I master trapezing.

I'm now conscious that the outhaul can be more influential than I've been assuming. Also, I like the idea that operating a really slick reefing procedure will let me carry full sail far longer, rather than over-cautiously reefing early...the fact that I now know I can get by without laboriously threading sail-ties through my reef-point holes, is a step forward. :encouragement: