Red over green

[Adrian Jones]

I am dreaming (fantasising) about a DIY version. Ultrabright LEDs come in all sorts of configurations some (claiming to be) waterproof.
A string (they come up to 15m long!) of reds in a multiturn coil would sit on the masthead or tricolour or all round white. Two patches of green could then be affixed onto the mast on each side one metre below. Some surface mount LEDs are available in blocks and they may be more suitable than strings.

However,the fantasy will probably remain just that!

Your suggestion is quite interesting.

Relatively inexpensive 360 degree mast top anchor lights are readily available and if fitted with a red LED lamp would, as you suggest, form the upper red light. The green element if affixed to the mast one metre lower is an interesting idea. However, from many angles when sailing, the lower green light would be obscured by sails.

Regards

 

[whipper_snapper]

However, from many angles when sailing, the lower green light would be obscured by sails.

It would seem so, but in practice it does not seem to cause problems. Big boats often just use a single all round on a bracket projecting fwd. OK, there must be blind spots, but they are small and no reason not to use the extra lights.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Your suggestion is quite interesting.

Relatively inexpensive 360 degree mast top anchor lights are readily available and if fitted with a red LED lamp would, as you suggest, form the upper red light. The green element if affixed to the mast one metre lower is an interesting idea. However, from many angles when sailing, the lower green light would be obscured by sails.

Regards

From the MCA regulations;-

(b) (i) All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures
within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30,
which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull.
(ii) If it is impracticable to comply with paragraph (b) (i) of this section by exhibiting only one
all-round light, two all-round lights shall be used suitably positioned or screened so that
they appear, as far as practicable, as one light at a distance of one mile.

 

[Adrian Jones]

It would seem so, but in practice it does not seem to cause problems. Big boats often just use a single all round on a bracket projecting fwd. OK, there must be blind spots, but they are small and no reason not to use the extra lights.

What about a green 360 deg green light mounted on the mast top with a simple one metre aluminium pole mounted adjacent to it with a 360deg red lamp mounted on the top. Both lights could be readily available marine lighting fixtures. However they would not be directly in line above each other, would the offset of say 100mm be an issue or the pole obstructing the green light? Answering my own question, probably not in practice from any important distance.

Regards

 

[whipper_snapper]

The installations I have seen have both red and green mounted in the same way. That means that blind spots affect both in the same way, so you can't see the red without the green.

 

[Graham_Wright]

What about a green 360 deg green light mounted on the mast top with a simple one metre aluminium pole mounted adjacent to it with a 360deg red lamp mounted on the top. Both lights could be readily available marine lighting fixtures. However they would not be directly in line above each other, would the offset of say 100mm be an issue or the pole obstructing the green light? Answering my own question, probably not in practice from any important distance.

Regards

An aluminium pole could degrade the aerial(s) performance. However, a plastic one would not. Horizontal separation is going to happen anyway when the boat heels!

 

[gerry99]

>Bow lights can be shielded by the genoa (specially when heeled), and the tricolour is dancing about all over the place. Has anyone ever succeeded in fitting all round red over green?

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

I think you need to read them carefully. Sailing vessels can carry optional lights :-

A sailing vessel of any length, which is fitted with sidelights and a stern light (but not a combined lantern) may, in addition, carry two all round lights in a vertical line at or near the top of the mast. The upper light shall be red and lower green.

 

[Uricanejack]

OOps - then I think my newly aquired Jag 24 is set up incorrectly.

It has deck level green/red and a stern white.

It has mast head all round white and all round tricolour.

So for sailing at night I thought the tricolour would be used.
And at night, the deck level lights, plus the all round white.

But that means from astern I would be showing two white lights one above each other - which is not in any of the diagrams of post #30.

At the moment the deck level lights are all on one circuit. Should I split these so I can turn off the stern white when steaming atr night ?

Your boat is set up to show the correct lights. under different circumstances. using several seperate options but not all at the same time

Your options are
Under power
Deck level Red Green, plus stern light, plus mast head.

Under sail you have 2 options
1 deck level red green plus stern light.
or
2 tricouler light on mast top

Aditionaly under power you could show the alround white in place of seperate mast head and stern light as long as you do not show the sternlight.

The all round white is for at anchor.

 

[OceanSprint]

Your boat is set up to show the correct lights. under different circumstances. using several seperate options but not all at the same time

Your options are
Under power
Deck level Red Green, plus stern light, plus mast head.

Under sail you have 2 options
1 deck level red green plus stern light.
or
2 tricouler light on mast top

Aditionaly under power you could show the alround white in place of seperate mast head and stern light as long as you do not show the sternlight.

The all round white is for at anchor.

But at the masthead i only have an all round white and a tricolour.

Hence steaming i would have to have the deck lights on plus the all round white. Hence from astern i would be showing two white lights one above the other?

 

[OceanSprint]

Break the regs ?

I am reading many books at the moment on single handed sailors, like RK and bernard moitessier. Both of these often, when in deep water, just want to be seen at all costs, and don't pay much heed to the letter of the law when it comes to lights (both at times simply hauled a single bright hurricane lamp up the mast). I guess single handing already breaks the "keep a lookout at all times" part of the colregs when sleeping.

My point is, couldn't we follow cyclists example? Their aim is to be seen by bigger powered vehicles and they forget the highway code (?) and use all manner of flashing lights.

in the middle of oceans, where small sailing boats just want the bigger boats to know they are there, could we not use a mast head bright white 360 degree xenon strobe light as a " watch out, i exist" light? To be used as a measure of "last resort" ? Or even a few such strobes at masthead and deck level?

I know its strictly against colregs, but then some of the watch keeping on the big boats we are trying to avoid also don't sound too legit. (And it would look good at xmas).

 

[Uricanejack]

But at the masthead i only have an all round white and a tricolour.

Hence steaming i would have to have the deck lights on plus the all round white. Hence from astern i would be showing two white lights one above the other?

That is odd. only option put a sock over the sten light or take the bulb out.

From astern I dont think it maters much. vessels often have so much lighting back aft the official stern light is lost in the back scatter. as long as you are seen.

 

[Adrian Jones]

But at the masthead i only have an all round white and a tricolour.

Hence steaming i would have to have the deck lights on plus the all round white. Hence from astern i would be showing two white lights one above the other?

I don't quite understand your setup. Normally with your lighting arrangement you would have three separate switched circuits:

1. For motoring, a switch connecting - Port, starboard, steaming light and stern light.
2. For sailing, a switch connecting - Tri-colour light
3. For Anchoring, a switch connecting - Anchor light

 

[Graham_Wright]

I don't quite understand your setup. Normally with your lighting arrangement you would have three separate switched circuits:

1. For motoring, a switch connecting - Port, starboard, steaming light and stern light.
2. For sailing, a switch connecting - Tri-colour light
3. For Anchoring, a switch connecting - Anchor light

All mutually exclusive.

 

[Adrian Jones]

All mutually exclusive.

Indeed....ha

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Hence from astern i would be showing two white lights one above the other?

...which is wrong, so separate out your stern light from your bicolour onto separate circuits, or fit a steaming light. Simples!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

All mutually exclusive.

It is possible to wire a bicolour, stern light and masthead all-round white with just 2 switches to cover the 4 situations of 1) all off, 2) motoring, 3) sailing, 4) at anchor such that it is impossible to display an incorrect combination. The wiring takes a bit of thinking about, but can be done without relays. This precludes using a tricolour, but with LEDs the power saving from a tricolour is less important now anyway.

 

[Graham_Wright]

It is possible to wire a bicolour, stern light and masthead all-round white with just 2 switches to cover the 4 situations of 1) all off, 2) motoring, 3) sailing, 4) at anchor such that it is impossible to display an incorrect combination. The wiring takes a bit of thinking about, but can be done without relays. This precludes using a tricolour, but with LEDs the power saving from a tricolour is less important now anyway.

Takes me back to the booleans!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Takes me back to the booleans!

Karnaugh map is what is needed. I seem to remember that one of the switches has to be 2-way double pole.

 

[knuterikt]

I don't quite understand your setup. Normally with your lighting arrangement you would have three separate switched circuits:

1. For motoring, a switch connecting - Port, starboard, steaming light and stern light.
2. For sailing, a switch connecting - Tri-colour light
3. For Anchoring, a switch connecting - Anchor light

A more logical (and flexible) setup would be.
1. A switch connecting steaming light (used when steaming)
2. A switch connecting - Port, starboard and stern light (For sailing where you prefer to use deck level lights AND when steaming)
3. A switch connecting Tri-colour light (For sailing when you want to use the tri colour)
3. For Anchoring, a switch connecting - Anchor light

For sailing off shore I would use 3 and for sailing in confined waters I would use 2

 

[Leighb]

A more logical (and flexible) setup would be.
1. A switch connecting steaming light (used when steaming)
2. A switch connecting - Port, starboard and stern light (For sailing where you prefer to use deck level lights AND when steaming)
3. A switch connecting Tri-colour light (For sailing when you want to use the tri colour)
3. For Anchoring, a switch connecting - Anchor light

For sailing off shore I would use 3 and for sailing in confined waters I would use 2

That is basically what I have. There are two rocker switches on the electrics panel with an Up, Centre and Down position, Centre is OFF. Up on left one switches on bow bicolour and stern light. Down switches on masthead tricolour (and switches off the others).
Up on the other switches on steaming light, down switches on masthead anchor light (Except it is not fitted) Thus both UP = under power, left alone DOWN = under sail. Right down, at anchor but not fitted. I also have a deck flood light combined with the steaming light, but this is on another switch. I could also have just the bicolour and stern light on for sailing if I wish.

Hope this is reasonably clear.