Red over green

[Graham_Wright]

It has always seemed to me that there is an inherent problem being seen at night due to obscuration of navigation lights.
Bow lights can be shielded by the genoa (specially when heeled), and the tricolour is dancing about all over the place.

Has anyone ever succeeded in fitting all round red over green?

The problem seems to be the minimum 1 metre separation and shielding by both sails.

They could be fitted on a staff and loaded with high intensity leds.

Thoughts?

 

[AHoy2]

I looked into doing this but found the vertical separation (even opting for less than 1 metre) a problem that required too much fabrication and re-arrangement of masthead clutter. There are no suitable lights available for small craft. The vertical R/G in conjunction with standard nav lights is my preferred arrangement for max visibility.

 

[DJE]

You could do it with a pair of 180 degree lights, one each side of the mast for each colour. I think that's what these are for:-

http://www.marinewarehouse.net/images/lopo/manuals/200-018%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

 

[Graham_Wright]

You could do it with a pair of 180 degree lights, one each side of the mast for each colour. I think that's what these are for:-

http://www.marinewarehouse.net/images/lopo/manuals/200-018%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

I did consider something like that but the genoa will obscure (at least) the lower one at one side.

If something is erected above the mast head, it poses worse problems. The glut of high intensity "waterproof" LEDs, invites consideration.

 

[prv]

I did consider it when the mast was down last winter - the low power draw of LEDs means that it's practical now when it wasn't before. I would have gone for the pairs of lights on the sides of the mast as DJE suggests - fairly sure colregs allow this provided they're no more than a certain distance apart so that they look like one light. No problem with the jib as we're fractional rigged, though possibly the main might obscure a narrow angle (lights with more than 180° coverage would help). But in the end I decided it was unnecessary faff and complication compared to a decently bright tricolour. If I wanted to make sure that ships were aware of me, I'd be better off fitting an active radar enhancer than extra lights.

Pete

 

[Graham_Wright]

If I wanted to make sure that ships were aware of me, I'd be better off fitting an active radar enhancer than extra lights.

Pete

……except that needs a radar irradiation to enhance!

 

[prv]

……except that needs a radar irradiation to enhance!

How many ships are blundering around the Channel at night without radar?

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

>Bow lights can be shielded by the genoa (specially when heeled), and the tricolour is dancing about all over the place. Has anyone ever succeeded in fitting all round red over green?

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

 

[Graham_Wright]

>Bow lights can be shielded by the genoa (specially when heeled), and the tricolour is dancing about all over the place. Has anyone ever succeeded in fitting all round red over green?

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

Er ………I think you ought to read them again!

 

[whipper_snapper]

>Bow lights can be shielded by the genoa (specially when heeled), and the tricolour is dancing about all over the place. Has anyone ever succeeded in fitting all round red over green?

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

Errm. Oh dear. That is wrong in so many ways!


I have sailed with red over green, but only in very big boats. Never seen them on anything less that 80', but I agree that with LEDs they could find a place in smaller boats.

 

[Graham_Wright]

How many ships are blundering around the Channel at night without radar?

Pete

Er………who mentioned the Channel? My fear is mid Bay of Biscay which can be littered with fishing boats. They tend not to use radar (I am told) to avoid giving away their position to competitors.

It's best to sleep in the day.

 

[Simondjuk]

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

Are you sure about this?

 

[prv]

Er………who mentioned the Channel?

That's where I sail, and where I would fit a radar enhancer instead of more lights

Pete

 

[prv]

If you are sailing you should be using the masthead Tricolor not the lower bow and stern lights, they indicate you are motoring. Also an all round red over green is not only against COLREGS it would be total confusing plus COLREGS require a white light pointing aft, hence why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

I count five statements of fact there, of which four of them are clearly incorrect.

(The odd one out is that a white stern light is required, which is true but not relevant)

Where do you get this stuff from?

Pete

 

[DJE]

Are you sure about this?

He sounds pretty sure but he's very wrong!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

...why all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

Multihulls with a rotating mast don't use a masthead tricolour for obvious reasons.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Multihulls with a rotating mast don't use a masthead tricolour for obvious reasons.

That makes it 5!

 

[prv]

all sailing yachts have a Tricolor at the top of the mast.

Multihulls with a rotating mast don't use a masthead tricolour for obvious reasons.

And nor did Kindred Spirit, though there's no particular reason she couldn't. But the tricolour is entirely optional, and wasn't even legal until (I think) the 70s. It's a concession to old-fashioned yacht electrical systems that couldn't run two or three bulbs all night; with the advent of LEDs it's less important, though still valuable if you're concerned about deck-level lights being hidden among waves.

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

>Errm. Oh dear. That is wrong in so many ways!

OK Rule 25(c)
Sailing boats - Optional mast top lights: Not required by law, but to make your sailing boat more visible, you can use the optional Red over Green mast top lights in addition to the required: •Red and Green side lights;•White Stern light

It's madness you will then be sailing with red and green lights at the top of the mast and the bow and stern lights on to get a white stern light. So you are neither sailing or motoring there by confusing ships and other yachts. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

 

[whipper_snapper]

>Errm. Oh dear. That is wrong in so many ways!

OK Rule 25(c)
Sailing boats - Optional mast top lights: Not required by law, but to make your sailing boat more visible, you can use the optional Red over Green mast top lights in addition to the required: •Red and Green side lights;•White Stern light

It's madness you will then be sailing with red and green lights at the top of the mast and the bow and stern lights on to get a white stern light. So you are neither sailing or motoring there by confusing ships and other yachts. I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

What do you mean 'neither sailing or motoring'? You are showing the lights for a sailing vessel supplemented by additional lights for a sailing vessel.