Red over green lights for sailing vessels

[sarabande]

Though I have a good tricolour at the top of the mast, I am wondering about how one might set up a red over green instead.

Separation has to be one metre for a SV <20m, which means either a pole on top of the mast, or some clever multi light installation to the front and rear of the mast Back scatter of the green on the main and top of the genny might be a problem ?

I can't recall seeing a red over green except on a sail training vessel.

 

[Greemble]

LEds stuck on a pole?
Three or four of each should be enough

Edit:
Maybe a strip LED wrapped around a pole

 

[[70521]]

I've never seen one either. Why waste all that energy with two bulbs going?

I do need to get some LED bulbs for the masthead light.

 

[prv]

I would go for low-profile LED lights in pairs either side of the mast, one pair just below the cap and one a metre below it. Unless you have a rather strangely-cut mainsail I can't see how you can go for front and back. You need reds and greens with at least 180º spread, which isn't a common setup, so it might need a careful choice of base unit and some DIY modification, perhaps using parts from the "steaming light" model in the same range. Alternatively, go for LED products that were never intended as navigation lights, for example three or four bands of stick-on rope lighting in the appropriate colour?

I have a fractional rig so it should stay clear of the jib, and any reflection off the mainsail would be forward rather than towards me, but I suspect that the top of the main on the leeward side would act like a diffuser and make a big obnoxious glow. Plus also limiting the visible range for other vessels over that arc.

All in all it seems a lot of hassle for an imperfect result and no great benefit, which is why practically no average-sized yachts do it.

Pete

 

[Joker]

I'm not entirely with this. Why would one want a red over green on a sailing vessel?

 

[Daydream believer]

I'm not entirely with this. Why would one want a red over green on a sailing vessel?

Because you can!!:encouragement:

 

[Greemble]

I'm not entirely with this. Why would one want a red over green on a sailing vessel?

Visibility.
Unlike a tricolour, the lower deck lights will be used also.

...and because you can.

Personally, I'd go with adding a pole to the top of the mast, keeping the lights well away from the sails and preventing any backwash (messing up night vision) or the sails obscuring the lights for other shipping.

 

[lw395]

I've sailed on an 80ft sloop with pairs of red and green either side of the mast.
It worked well enough, shining through the dacron sails to some extent.

Having anything above the masthead gets complex with VHF aerials, wind instruments and such.

The red can be used in port to ward off Biggles and brag about mast height.

Primary means of not crashing tends to be your radar, the other bugger's radar, AIS, your ordinary nav lights.
The red and green are about claiming rights as a sailing vessel more than simply being more visible.

 

[Ladybirdgaffcutter]

lw395 Yes exactly, especially the bit about claiming rights as sailing vessel, going back to pre radar days even.

 

[prv]

The red and green are about claiming rights as a sailing vessel more than simply being more visible.

Indeed and why they're helpful on large sail training vessels in particular - other watchkeepers might take some convincing that an 800-ton ship can also be a sailing vessel, and stand-on rights are particularly valuable when altering course might require 20 minutes' notice to get the watch below out of their bunks and in position to brace the yards.

Pete

 

[zoidberg]

stand-on rights are particularly valuable when altering course might require 20 minutes' notice to get the watch below out of their bunks and in position to brace the yards.

I'm trying to visualise that situation with Sarabande and his 'merry band of bruvvers'.....

 

[Daydream believer]

I would go for low-profile LED lights in pairs either side of the mast, one pair just below the cap and one a metre below it.

Not that I wish to argue with you, but where in the regs does it say that the lights have to be 1 metre apart?
I told this to a sail training establishment & they produced the training regulations book (from the RYA I think) & could not find it.
The instructor informed me that he had sailed on a boat where the red & green were in one single unit. I have always thought that they had to be 1 M apart but cannot prove that.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Not that I wish to argue with you, but where in the regs does it say that the lights have to be 1 metre apart?
I told this to a sail training establishment & they produced the training regulations book (from the RYA I think) & could not find it.
The instructor informed me that he had sailed on a boat where the red & green were in one single unit. I have always thought that they had to be 1 M apart but cannot prove that.

It used to be specified in the colregs ----- 1 metre on vessels up to 20 m LOA and 2 metres on vessels over 20m. I havnt looked but I expect its still there.

 

[sarabande]

I had to look it up !

Annex 1, Rule 2, i, 11.

"such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart"

and (which I had forgotten :mad-new

"and the lowest of these light to be at a height of not less than 2 metres above the gunwhale"

 

[GHA]

Not that I wish to argue with you, but where in the regs does it say that the lights have to be 1 metre apart?
I told this to a sail training establishment & they produced the training regulations book (from the RYA I think) & could not find it.
The instructor informed me that he had sailed on a boat where the red & green were in one single unit. I have always thought that they had to be 1 M apart but cannot prove that.

Took a couple of seconds on google -

Rule 25Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars.


>>>>


(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.

Annex 1, 2 (i)
http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/Irpcs/annexi.htm

(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be placed as follows:

(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less then 4 metres above the hull;


(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lower of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 2 metres above the hull:

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks

 

[lpdsn]

I would go for low-profile LED lights in pairs either side of the mast, one pair just below the cap and one a metre below it. Unless you have a rather strangely-cut mainsail I can't see how you can go for front and back.

I have considered it, although not seriously. The problem is that LEDs are directional to a certain extent. I reckon it could be done with four LED units per 'light' arranged in a diamond shape. Possibly better with six in a hexagonal shape, but that would definitely require brackets attached to the mast. I was thinking of using the waterproof trailer sidelights you can get on the web in various colours, incl red & green. I do have tha advantage that the forestay joins about 10' below the masthead, so I have the room for the 1m separation.

 

[lpdsn]

I told this to a sail training establishment & they produced the training regulations book (from the RYA I think) & could not find it.
The instructor informed me that he had sailed on a boat where the red & green were in one single unit. I have always thought that they had to be 1 M apart but cannot prove that.

That sounds worrying for an instructor & school that should know better. Presumably the single unit was on the bow and the red was over the green on port tack, but on starboard tack the green was over the red.

 

[knuterikt]

Not that I wish to argue with you, but where in the regs does it say that the lights have to be 1 metre apart?
I told this to a sail training establishment & they produced the training regulations book (from the RYA I think) & could not find it.
The instructor informed me that he had sailed on a boat where the red & green were in one single unit. I have always thought that they had to be 1 M apart but cannot prove that.

Annex 1 2ii

 

[VicS]

Annex 1 2ii

??

Annex 1 2 (i), (i) & (ii) perhaps

2. Vertical positioning and spacing of lights​

(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced
as follows:

(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2
metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required,
be placed at a height of not less than 4 metres above the hull;

(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre
apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be
placed at a height of not less than 2 metres above the gunwale;​

​

From http://www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf