red diesel-the point

[gjgm]

I put this here, before Kim transfers it, because maybe everyone would be interested tod read it. Its from the EEC Council directive 92/81/EEC:

The proposal in this paper sets out the criteria for establishing a separate tax category for diesel fuel used for commercial purposes (commercial diesel fuel). The main aim is to:
- uncouple the tax arrangements for fuel used for commercial purposes from those for fuels used for private purposes, which would make it easier for Member States wishing to do so to increase the excise duty on diesel fuel used for private purposes to bring it into line with the excise duty levied on petrol;
and
It is therefore clear on the one hand that excise duty rates on commercial diesel fuel need to be harmonised and on the other hand that rates on non-commercial fuels have to be increased throughout the European Union. At the same time, the tax differences between diesel fuel and petrol have to be reduced.
This cannot be done unless the taxation of fuels used for commercial purposes is uncoupled from the taxation of fuels used for private purposes, and the most efficient level at which to do the uncoupling is the Community level.
Consequently, Directives 92/81/EEC and 92/82/EEC need amending to create two categories of diesel fuel, differentiated according to whether they are used for commercial or other purposes, and a minimum, appropriate, Community rate of duty needs to be established for each category.
and
In the long run, non-commercial diesel fuel and petrol should be taxed at similar rates at national level, the rates depending on the environmental performance of the fuels and the engines in which they are used. The Community minimum rates of excise duty for non-commercial diesel fuel and unleaded petrol should converge



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[TargaLout]

As you've put it here before Kim moves it.....
This surlely proposes a problem (which is why IMHO it wont happen like you say) as three deisel fuels are needed then?.
1 DERV for all road users.
2 Gas Oil (Coloured Red) for commercial use (Non-Road use)
3 Gas Oil (Another colour) for non-road private use.

3 = Too expensive to produce so whats the alternative no type 3 fuel just have to use DERV even for non-road use.

Is this fair I ask?


<hr width=100% size=1><http://www.fairlinetarga37.com>

 

[Geoffs]

Of course it's not fair, but then when has anything about taxation been fair? 200% tax on road fuel (and boat petrol!) is not fair!

<hr width=100% size=1>Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[gjgm]

er, this isnt what i am saying... this is quoted direct from the Directive....

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[gjgm]

er, this isnt what i am saying... this is quoted direct from the Directive....

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[Wiggo]

where does heating oil fit in this? Non commercial if for use at home, but commerciakl if used to heat a factory? So the heating oil suppliers will need two sets of tanks, tankers, charging structures etc?

<hr width=100% size=1><-- insert witty sig file here -->

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.fairlinetarga29.info>Buy my boat!</A>

 

[TargaLout]

er, yes. Did n't see you mention that they would identify the fuels though, which is my point.

<hr width=100% size=1><http://www.fairlinetarga37.com>

 

[steverow]

OK, several issues raised by this directive..

Viz, Definition of Commercial usage, ...Road Haulage industry is commercial usage
would they therefore be taxed at the lower rate?

Environmental performance and type of engines used...it would surely be unfair to tax leisure marine users at the same rate as road users because of the large efficiency difference between the fuel/distance return.

I think in the great scheme of fuel usage, leisure marine is relatively small change.
My hope is that it's not worth the effort for the exchequor to meddle with it.

Steve

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[BarryD]

Not sure that it's a good argument

"it would surely be unfair to tax leisure marine users at the same rate as road users because of the large efficiency difference between the fuel/distance return"

In that case I might make a point for the high performance car, unfair as it drinks more fuel and hence in inefficient on fuel/distance return (bot not time). Your answer (quite rightly) would be "Well you bought the thristy great thing".

Do you not think if marine fuel was taxed the designers would come up with a more efficient powertrain / hull combination?

<hr width=100% size=1>Or then again...

 

[kimhollamby]

<font size=1>Do you not think if marine fuel was taxed the designers would come up with a more efficient powertrain / hull combination?</font size=1>

They did a few thousand years ago...it's called sail (and yes I am joking, but only just).

If you want to make a motorboat go fast and be more efficient, you have to give up a lot of something, most likely accommodation, which is one of the bits big beamy planing craft are prized for. Alternatively you give up speed and by giving it up I really mean dropping below hull speed, which means learning to cruise at 6 knots or thereabouts on average length hulls.

In other words it's going to take more than a bit of technomeddling to recover the threefold increase in fuel costs if that is the way it goes.

That said it may be that there will be more emphasis on fuel efficiency than current, in which case expect sterndrives to virtually takeover, especially as sterndrive packages will be easier for builders when it comes to complying with new noise emission rules in ammended RCD. And it could be that you will even find owners of faster boats paying more attention of things like tides and wave direction, to get better fuel efficiency. Ruining hat of course will be the fact that every fast boat owner will fit additional 300gal tankage to take advantage of 'cheap' French diesel /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[BarryD]

Sail power - you\'ll go straight to hell for that!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Or then again...

 

[halcyon]

This started from memory in earlier threads as the EU saying we had to bring our tax in line with Europe.

Is not this the time to do a survey of all EU fuel prices and keep a running check to monitor our prices, against future trends.

Brian

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[powerskipper]

The way I see it. IMSHO
There is another point; any major increase in fuel costs will also have a significant impact on training course fees.
This in turn will make training less appealing, so in turn will mean that many will not do the training and may well result in more incidents and an increase in insurance premiums. Or compulsory training may be introduced, which has been debated on here many times, the ramification can and will be far reaching and may not just affect those who directly use the fuel!


<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[oldgit]

Re:Real world fuel consumption

Some figures gleaned from last seasons log.
2 x 145hp on sterndrives.33ft 5 ton boat.
5 knots = 2 GPH
12 knots = 8 GPH.

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[gjgm]

I dont think raising the idea people will cut back on voluntary training if it gets more expensive , is a good one to raise. I m sure the word voluntary will rapidly disappear along with the cheap diesel....

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