Red Diesel saga
- Thread starter Javelin
- Start date
Gwylan
Well-Known Member
How long is this going to continue?
How many boats have actually been done for having red diesel? It's all well and good having these rules, but if they are not enforced...
The whole thing (including the YM article) has the feel of a Daily Wail scare story - everything gives you cancer
I got done by the Dutch for Red Diesel - €750, had to pay there and then [23:00] local time or the boat would be confiscated and 'they would see me in court'
We did eventually get the money back, but that was because of an awful lot of help from people who knew how to resolve these kind of things.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
what did you do to upset them & how long ago was this
maby
Well-Known Member
Premier sells that little diesel?
A lot less than most petrol stations, I would expect. I don't know Premier well, but am resident in an MDL marina - they probably sell fuel to less than a dozen boats per day and there are about a dozen marinas in the chain. OK, the MoBos will take on hundreds of gallons, but the sailing boats will generally be taking on tens of gallons. Compare that with a supermarket - hundreds of outlets, perhaps a dozen pumps in each and cars queuing for pumps at peak times. They may be taking on less than ten gallons each, but it still adds up to a far higher volume than almost every marina chain. Even a small, independent petrol station probably sells more diesel than most marinas - if they didn't they would be out of business given the profit margin.
Bru
Well-Known Member
It might interest people to know that a moderately busy forecourt on the A14 will shift, on average, between one and one and a half tanker loads of diesel a day!
On average, about 25,000 litres a day give or take 5,000 or 6,000
And the really busy sites can be receiving up to four or even five artic tankers every single day of the week
No marina operation is even going to come close to the smallest chain service station, not even in the same ball park
On average, about 25,000 litres a day give or take 5,000 or 6,000
And the really busy sites can be receiving up to four or even five artic tankers every single day of the week
No marina operation is even going to come close to the smallest chain service station, not even in the same ball park
muyuu
Well-Known Member
It's silly to even entertain the idea that white diesel pumps get volume discounts over 50% to be able to compete with red diesel.
However this is just a source of income for the marina and they will make their targets one way or the other. Using white diesel at marinas means a lot of money going towards tax instead, they will make up for it.
Eventually some sort of transition will have to happen. Rather than marking diesel the government should try tax rebates, although I'm sure that will be much harder to police and some people would evade tax by claiming different usages than real.
However this is just a source of income for the marina and they will make their targets one way or the other. Using white diesel at marinas means a lot of money going towards tax instead, they will make up for it.
Eventually some sort of transition will have to happen. Rather than marking diesel the government should try tax rebates, although I'm sure that will be much harder to police and some people would evade tax by claiming different usages than real.
maby
Well-Known Member
It's silly to even entertain the idea that white diesel pumps get volume discounts over 50% to be able to compete with red diesel.
However this is just a source of income for the marina and they will make their targets one way or the other. Using white diesel at marinas means a lot of money going towards tax instead, they will make up for it.
Eventually some sort of transition will have to happen. Rather than marking diesel the government should try tax rebates, although I'm sure that will be much harder to police and some people would evade tax by claiming different usages than real.
The trouble with tax rebates to compensate commercial users for being required to buy unmarked diesel is the cost of setting up the systems to process those rebates. The HMRC is not going to be particularly enthusiastic to gear up for a new set of claim forms.
ChattingLil
Well-Known Member
I'm really interested to know under what circumstances this happened and how you resolved it. We hoping to head up that way next week, but it would be a seriously big crimp in the plan if we were fined as we have huge tanks.
muyuu
Well-Known Member
Yep it's not going to be easy but the situation will eventually be untenable if the UK and the rest of the EU cannot agree to allow or disallow red diesel. Right now it's just Belgium and Germany that seem to be enforcing it, but eventually it will be the whole EU.
As it is, continentals cannot refuel here either, without risking heavy fines.
Something has to be done.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
muyuu
Well-Known Member
I only go through reports from fellow sailors claiming to have been fined in Belgium and Germany.
Personally I haven't been fined, but then again I haven't been to Belgium or Germany for about 7 years.
maby
Well-Known Member
I suspect that within a year, the government will be forced to accept that the current rules are not legal under EU directives. At that point they will simply say that leisure users can no longer buy red diesel and leave it up to us to work out how to cope. We southerners will not be too badly affected - there are plenty of marinas round here and they will start selling unmarked fuel. The rest of you are going to have a more difficult time of it.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
I was in Belgium 2 w/e ago & will be there this coming w/e weather permitting.
Pleas stick to fact, NOT hearsay.
In the past 37 years of taking my own boats to Belgium & Holland i have never had any issues with authority
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muyuu
Well-Known Member
That is why I said "seem to be" not "are".
The anecdotal evidence that you haven't been fined in your last visit proves naught. The law is that red diesel gets fined. Now, we can discuss how much is that enforced. There are several accounts in this forum and elsewhere, so I assume they are not all making it up or lying. Are you basically suggesting that we should take the chance and knowingly break the regulations in Belgium and elsewhere? Personally, I'm going to start carrying jerry cans of white diesel to my boat so next time I'm in the continent I'm below the dye level limits, even in France where I've taken my chances before.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
You are spreading disinformation & have now knowledge of what is actually happening, in countries you havnt been to for many years.
is rare that somebody get their collar felt & often for good reason, due to other factors that dont get publicised
France is not a problem to date.
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muyuu
Well-Known Member
Please stop replying with nonsense. I said it "seems to be enforced" in Belgium and Germany from the accounts in this forum and elsewhere, who I guess you are dismissing as liars. I think it's clear for everybody to see that I didn't claim that enforcement to be consistent or anything of the sort. Stop cluttering the thread repeating the same thing time and again.
I know nobody who has been fined in France, I have gone many times and I've never been fined. However, the law is still the same and to be on the safe side I will avoid red diesel if I can. Again, the context is clear in this message that I don't claim that this happens in France, indeed it seems that it doesn't happen at all as of today.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
But, you are perpetuating the myth.
I am not "cluttering this" you have no personal knowledge, just gossip
muyuu
Well-Known Member
Of course I have personal knowledge. I know the regulations, I just haven't been fined. You don't need to get fined to know it, are you stupid?
libertyman
Active Member
I believe the French have stated that they will not fine you if you have a receipt for purchase of white diesel in France that is less than 12 months old. I always fill up as soon as I arrive there so can tick the box. Perhaps this would be a pragmatic way forward?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
We all know the regs & some are in close contact with Gus @ the RYA.
some of us actually go to these countries too
