red diesel goes to appeal

[beejum06]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

Hello, all. My! What a thread this has wrot! I introduced the notion - no, suggestion - of a surtax on the recreational use of fossil fuels and it seems we have debated and solved every environmental issue under the (smog-laden) sun!

Thank you al for your insights. It matters not the price of marine diesel in Canada, nor that climate warming has cycled repetitively over 200,000 years (that graph conveniently cut off in 1950). The fact remains that we are burning more carbon-base fuels than ever and spewing their exhausts into the atmosphere. The result is evident in the melting of permafrosts and the release of methane therefrom. Thanks for the suggestion that my wigwam needs heating but today the temperature in my part of Canada was 18 degrees C; in years past we have had up to 60 cms of snow on the ground. Today I had the wigwam flaps wide open.

You asked questions: my boat? A 9.9 hp 4-cycle Honda outboard used to monitor a wilderness area 4 kms away; why did I glom onto PBO? I read the October issue while on holiday and was (and still am) blown away by the attitude that piddling away what are gibly called resources is a right.

Thank you for all these words. They are logged and one day I hope will become a source of a dialogue with the next generations.

May I pontificate with an Indian proverb? "The frog does not drink up the pond in which he lives."

Please see Al Gore's film.

 

[fireball]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

[ QUOTE ]
The fact remains that we are burning more carbon-base fuels than ever and spewing their exhausts into the atmosphere. The result is evident in the melting of permafrosts and the release of methane therefrom.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you offer conclusive proof that the burning of carbon base fuels is having a significant effect on global warming ....

Quite a few documentaries on TV over here have offered counter evidence suggesting that if the smog and aircraft vapour was to go then global warming would accelarate ...

Your suggestion for surtax on leisure fuel - something that is likely to happen over here within the next few years anyway - has been debated and strongly suggests that increasing tax does NOT reduce overall usage. Not only that, but the extra tax (reported to be a negative gain for the UK government) would probably not go directly to environmental research - so just becomes another way of taking more money from the public.

The relative price we pay is significant - come over and live in Europe where the UK has historically been more expensive to live in than it's neighbours, removal of derrogation on Red Diesel would mean that the UK then pays significantly MORE than the French for the same fuel .... WHY? WHERE IS THE JUSTIFICATION?! You show me that I will benefit (even in the long term) and I will support the extra tax. But as, in the opinion of many experts, others and ME that the increase in tax will have no significant impact on burning fossil fuels I can see NO BENEFIT to taxing it further.

As for your Honda 9.9 4stroke - throw it away (sorry - recycle it) and get a CLEAN electric outboard charged by a SOLAR PANEL - you have an alternative - use it. Or are you suggesting that you'd continue to use the Honda even if the price of petrol doubled?

 

[duncan]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

[ QUOTE ]
I introduced the notion - no, suggestion - of a surtax on the recreational use of fossil fuels

[/ QUOTE ]

my apologies if I misunderstood but I thought you started with the notion that it was ridiculous that we (in the UK) were fighting to retain the 'tax free' status of our marine diesel (because).......

I hope that you now understand this particular issue a little better ie we are currently paying 50% more than you and the proposal on the table would mean an increase to around 400% of the price you pay.

not arguing against every little (reduction in the use of carbon fuels) probably helps something

not arguing we all shouldn't take responsibility for the planet tomorrow

simply trying to explain why some people reacted the way they did to your post

there are financial environments as well

if you want a really sad case look at the prawns being caught in the UK, shipped to the Far East for hand shelling (only) then shipping back for processing & packing. Leveaging th elabour market provides the financal to buy the fuel to burn in this equation. If you (governments) aren't prepared to tackle the corporate issues they shouldn't play with individuals like pawns.

 

[cliffordpope]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

The price of red diesel has absolutely nothing to do with global warming. Even if diesel were free it wouldn't cause me to use any more - I'm limited by weather, free time, other more significant expenses.
Or if it were taxed at £100 a gallon I'd just use cooking oil or central heating oil or buy it from a farmer.

 

[fireball]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

So - if the price of diesel doesn't affect your use - what would? What would make you use an environmentally friendly fuel? (is there such a thing?!)

 

[cliffordpope]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

So - if the price of diesel doesn't affect your use - what would? What would make you use an environmentally friendly fuel? (is there such a thing?!)

Having bought a diesel engine obviously I am going to use it. The cost of the fuel is a secondary consideration.
To answer your question :
Fuel rationing, possibly to essential users only.
Government ban on diesel engines.
Discovery that use of a diesel engine caused certain death by age 60.

 

[fireball]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

So an electric engine wouldn't tempt you away? even if the price of fuel increased so much that it became more cost effective to do so? Obviously the electric alternative would need to be of comparible power....

 

[duncan]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

and where are you going to get the electricity generated?

a coal powered power station?????

 

[fireball]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

Well actually I was thinking about a diesel generator /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

Assuming thet leisure will be interpreted by the politically motivated, or jealous, as "inessential" then all fuel and resources used to supply more than 2500 cal of food per day (be generous) is leisure. All travel that is not work or health related is leisure, all sport (berring a bit for health purposes) is leisure, all TV, art, literature etc is leisure...

I'll stop being silly now, but someone else started it.

While every little helps, the fact remains that a relatively few people doing a little is of less value than a large number doing a little What are the comparative fuel uses between a season's worth of all leisure boating and a season's worth of, say, away football matches? Or even a General Election campaign...

BTW all motorsport uses quite a bit of fossil fuel doesn't it

 

[Mike21]

Rerice of canadian marine diesel?

[ QUOTE ]
So - if the price of diesel doesn't affect your use - what would? What would make you use an environmentally friendly fuel? (is there such a thing?!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Availability would be one requirement