Red diesel - Chapter three

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Marina costs hit everyone much more

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Which is why we keep our British Registered boat with red diesel residue in her tank, in the Netherlands.

Marsupial - [ QUOTE ]
but I need to see a letter from the Dutch before I go to Holland again

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Don't waste your life, get over there. When we arrived with our new boat a couple of weeks ago a Dutch Customs launch waived to us in the Westerschelde and that was it. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
 
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Gosh! Some clarity at last.
I do feel a bit sorry for Suzanne, probably some poor secretary tasked with giving us the brush off /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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There is no "clarity at last". What matters to you as you putter into some foreign harbour is not what the RYA think, nor HMC&E nor even the EU Commission, but what the instruction is to the local customs officer.

The RYA ned to write to the customs of every EU country and clarify what their instructions are to their staff. Even then you may have local difficulties.
 
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To use an example - but not seeking to reopen this matter - red diesel. Did they not see the paradox and sillyness in a "sailing association" lobbying to keep a derrogation for red diesel in place? Did they not realize that the battle was unwinnable and would damage their reputation? There are many more examples.



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Wrong Dom. From personal contact at the time I know the RYA were well aware of the difficulties of arguing for cheap red diesel on behalf of what the 90 odd percent of the population regard as rich yotties. Thats why the campaign was relatively low profile in publicity terms and still effective in getting the govt (a socialist one at that) to do an about turn and ask for an extension of the derogation. It was the EU not the govt who said "no". and with every justification in practise.

The RYA has a hard job to do. Its members include mobos as well as yotties and with 2 very different agendas. There is little / no public support for this relatively rich mans hobby, and the govt is hostile to the middle classes that are involved in it. So it has to be a case of quiet diplomacy, which the membership wrongly assumes means nothing going on.
 
With all respect that makes no sense. This governnment is not some kind of socialist idiocracy. I do, however, disagree with them on many matters of policy.

Your point, and sadly I feel you may be correct, that the RWA cunningly faught a hopeless cause with a low profile, just makes we worry more that they have lost a sense of reality. The truth is no campaigner can predict/judge with any degree of accuracy the impact of their campaign. Quite frankly it would amaze me if this were really RYA policy.
 
This may yet have some way to run as we don't yet know how the government will decide to tax us after 2008. If, as we would all like, we continue to fill up with red but are charged a higher price, but not at the price of road fuel, then the Dutch will have to agree not to fine people for using red!
 
There's no chance of that as it couldn't be done.

All that will happen is the same thing when GB decides to put the duty up on petrol ~ the marina tanks will be dipped last thing or at midnight and the results recorded for the revenue, then the pump prices will be increased to reflect the new charges.

You come along next day (1st Nov) and buy the same diesel at the new duty rate ~ get a dated receipt stating the amount of diesel (litres) and the total amount paid.

When the marinas tanks need filling it will be done with "white" ~ yes there will still be a tracer in it but slowly it will be less and less as time goes on.


I bet there will be an awful lot of people filling up from late October ~ perfectly legal, just get a receipt.

Peter.
 
Wid it help?

If wee jamesie, para and masel nipped ower tae Hollan and slipped yon Bosman lassie a crippler? She soonds a cracker an ah widnae want her feelin bruised ower a bittie diesel - red, white er ony ither colour.
 
Re: Wid it help?

Go by all means but I think she's at the Dutch embassy in London. There's not much call for Dutch embassies in Holland.
 
Re: Wid it help?

Jings - thanks fer tha' whit an eejit - so countries only have embrassies in ither countries....my but ye learn something evry day, richt enuff.
 
No thanks!

I'll waste my life somewhere less belligerent. When I go sailing I want a quiet life and I definitely don’t want to provoke a head to head with Customs Officials just because I have a red duster and red diesel – there lies madness.

Life's too short and there's alot of sea out there. . .
 
This thread is for the most part wide of the mark: what is the case for Dutch C & E taking any different line on red diesel in a UK registered boat today than before the EU refused our government's request for an extension of the derogation? None. So no action should be expected between now and the end of 2008 at the very least. Carrying red into any EU country in such a vessel is legitimate.

Think ahead, fellow sailors: as of now the Channel Islands are intent on retaining discounted red diesel which we can legitimately purchase en route and use throughout the EU without challenge. I know of no move to outlaw such trade.

In my experience of dealing with officialdom in EU waters, the top matters of intertest are, not suprisingly, contraband, drugs, illicit trafficing of people. Not even VAT irregularities appear to trump these matters.

So why not sail on in the founded belief that folks doing their job are not about to imprison matelots for a few drops of red diesel. And move on....

Back at home I'm not so sanguine: I don't doubt that some stupid official in the UK will try to order the purging of tanks in leisure craft (some 200,000 at the last count) at the end of 2008. It's this sort of gold plating that I want to see stopped in its tracks - time to pressure the RYA again to get assurances from C & E !

PWG
 
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With all respect that makes no sense. This governnment is not some kind of socialist idiocracy.

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With Prezza as deputy pm? He fits both tags.

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Your point, and sadly I feel you may be correct, that the RWA cunningly faught a hopeless cause with a low profile, just makes we worry more that they have lost a sense of reality. The truth is no campaigner can predict/judge with any degree of accuracy the impact of their campaign. Quite frankly it would amaze me if this were really RYA policy.

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I can assure you that it was RYA policy to fight hard but discreetly (if thats the right word) on the diesel issue. How do you think that the likes of the Daily Mirror would have headlined a loud and vocal RYA campaign for tax free diesel top rich yotties when forms hauling our food pay full tax? But the main point is that the RYA won. They persuaded a government who are no friends of ours to change their stance and request an extension of the derogation. It was the EU, not the govt who turned us down.

I think the RYA handled the whole issue very well in the circumstances.
 
Fair point about the Daily Mirror. That was pretty skillful. However I am not sure I agree with your point that the EU turned the request down so it was their decision. My understanding is that for something relatively small like this the requesting country indicates whether or not it is a sticky point. This was clearly not done i.e. the initial vagueness as to what the Government might do followed by a too bad these pesky Europeans wont allow it type of thing. I would not mind if the Government just said, No hard luck chaps. But to take us for twits rankles a bit.
 
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I don't doubt that some stupid official in the UK will try to order the purging of tanks in leisure craft (some 200,000 at the last count) at the end of 2008.

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I hope so. I really need my fuel tank purging business to do better than my HIPS and energy survey business has done. I am also relying on lots of work for my 'Marine Official' business as Ladyman says he is going to recruit loads of narks and grasses and I think I can corner the market. I am also bidding for the sole egency to breathalise boat owners in marinas. If this goes well, I may then get the rights to administer the forthcoming 'Leisureboaters Licence Scheme' although I favour a pay-as-you-boat system. To make things really complicated I am suggesting they adopt a 3D system that charge more per nautical mile the shallower it is. This will encourage people to use their boats further offshore where there is less congestion. Transits of TSS's will of course cost double.
 
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